ASA MEC endorses TA/Bonus formula published...

[GeekMaster]

Saw Nick Tomlin....he had a spreadsheet showing each pilot's bonus IF THE LIST WAS LOCKED IN TODAY. The last set of numbers I posted was REALLY CLOSE.

If you want to know what you're getting, use them and once you get the final number, subtract about $200 from the total. That's probably because I had no way of knowing which military LOA's were entitled to Capt Bonuses.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I delayed my upgrade a couple of months in an attempt not to sit on reserve for as many months as some who took the first possible upgrade award. Now I stand to lose thousands because my effective date is Jan. 1. How can you say that those guys that were FOs for only a few months less than me suffered more than me? I don't care how much perfume you put this, it still smells like a POS! I was thinking YES until I read about this. Now I think it is a hell NO!

Then vote no. You will be in the minority.

I, on the other hand, took the first upgrade available, and ate it on the QOL for a year.

You chose QOL over money. We all make choices, pal. Now you have to live with your decision. Stop your whining and put in your upgrade bid. It'll get you an extra $30K per year, reserve is worth it.

 

[wms]

\\


YES!! I'd gladly trade every dime of this 'signing bonus' for better job protection. In fact, I'd wager that if every pilot at ASA turned down the signing bonus, but demanded a DOH integration (with fences, protections, whatever possible to avoid the USAir mess [read: be fair to the SKYW and ASA pilots, not to try to screw either group]) with SKYW, we would get it. This would be a HUGE step forward in protecting all of our jobs. No more whipsaw BS within the brand. (Well, between ASA and SKYW, anyways...)

Just sayin'.

Give up money to secure a job at ASA. I don't think so. And I'm sure a deal like that wouldn't pass.

 

[COOPERVANE]

AGREED!! The MEC should determine a per day dollar amount you are owed. You've been here the full 5 years, full payout. A few weeks, a couple of bucks....Thats fair.

The CA/FO payout is BS.

CALL/EMAIL YOUR REPS!!! TELL THEM YOU WANT A PER DAY DOLLAR AMOUNT!! NOT THIS 60% LONGEVITY BS!!

CALL/EMAIL YOUR REPS!!! TELL THEM YOU WANT A PER DAY DOLLAR AMOUNT!! NOT THIS 60% LONGEVITY BS!!

CALL/EMAIL YOUR REPS!!! TELL THEM YOU WANT A PER DAY DOLLAR AMOUNT!! NOT THIS 60% LONGEVITY BS!!

They will not consider changing ANYTHING unless 500 F.O.'s call/email and complain. They have only had 5-6 even call so far

DO IT!!

 

[CFI2766]

Yet another update to numbers. YES I'M BORED TODAY. This time I actually built it into a spreadsheet using Alpa's seniority list and let the computer do the math. Keep in mind, I still don't know who will quit or be added to the assignment sheet by 11/20. That said, this one will have the smallest margin of error yet.

Captains Longevity 289.30
Captains Delay 1872.67

F/O's multiply each value by .60

When using the examples listed in the MEC resolution, they are rounding UP to whole numbers for seniorities over 1 year. Therefore a pilot with 3 years 1 week will receive 4 shares. Here are some examples.

5 year Captain: Delay bonus 9363.38
Longevity : 1735.74
Total: 11099.12

10 year Captain: Delay 9363.38
Longevity 3182.19
Total: 12545.57

3 year FO: Delay 4494.42
Longevity 694.30

Did the list you saw continue with the idea of rounding up seniority? I.e., woud a 1 year and 1 week FO get two shares?

 

[GeekMaster]

In short, for all seniorities over one year (one year and one day or more) will use the paygrade you're on. In otherwords, if you have been here 3 years 11 months on November 20, you are on year four pay. Therefore you get 4 shares. If you have been here 4 years 2 weeks on November 20, you are on year 5 pay and get 5 shares.

I've said in another post that once you calculate your total, subtract about 200 bucks. The reason for that is ALPA's list was able to figure in the oddities that I wasn't. (military LOA's and such that qualified for Capt shares but weren't on the regular list.

 

[PCL_128]

I doubt many will even read section 1, and even fewer will understand it....

Agreed. Far too few pilots understand the importance of scope. They'll count their dollars now and ignore the fact that those very dollars can disappear tomorrow without job security. There's a reason that Scope is always at the very beginning of a contract: it's the most important thing.

 

[Well-hung Start]

The deal is flawed BECAUSE it is neither a "signing bonus" nor a "retro pay."

Here's why:

1) If this were a real RETRO PAY, it would be fair to pay FO's 60% of captains since that is roughly the pay rate ratio. BUT RETRO PAY WOULD BE ABOUT TRIPLE THE $13.5M! ie: it would pay each pilot the difference between the old and new contract, since the amendable date. The proposed payout is NOT "retro pay." Then why the 60% ratio?

2) Signing bonus should pay each pilot on the list the same. One vote=one bonus check.

What we have is some silly hybrid formula which appears to be "logical" but is really just a big smokescreen obscuring the real issue:

WE ARE GETTING SCREWED!

 

[COOPERVANE]

The deal is flawed BECAUSE it is neither a "signing bonus" nor a "retro pay."

Here's why:

1) If this were a real RETRO PAY, it would be fair to pay FO's 60% of captains since that is roughly the pay rate ratio. BUT RETRO PAY WOULD BE ABOUT TRIPLE THE $13.5M! ie: it would pay each pilot the difference between the old and new contract, since the amendable date. The proposed payout is NOT "retro pay." Then why the 60% ratio?

2) Signing bonus should pay each pilot on the list the same. One vote=one bonus check.

What we have is some silly hybrid formula which appears to be "logical" but is really just a big smokescreen obscuring the real issue:

WE ARE GETTING SCREWED!

agreed!! Call those reps!!!

 

[John Pennekamp]

They will not consider changing ANYTHING unless 500 F.O.'s call/email and complain. They have only had 5-6 even call so far

DO IT!!

You're not going to get 500 calls. In fact, I've only counted about 10 or so people whining about it.

Get over it. The formula isn't going to change. I know this MEC and they will not revisit the issue.

Go ahead and vote no. You'll get NOTHING! Fool!

 

[GearUpLightsIn]

I just hope to GOD everyone is paying even half as much attention to the language of our TA as everyone seems to be paying attention to a lame-a$$ bonus formula! I have been asked several times at work what I think of this formula, but no one has said anything about the ACTUAL contract. I understand we don't need to talk about it here, but I don't get the impression that people are thinking a lot about the CONTRACT that we will be bound by for the coming years.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I just hope to GOD everyone is paying even half as much attention to the language of our TA as everyone seems to be paying attention to a lame-a$$ bonus formula! I have been asked several times at work what I think of this formula, but no one has said anything about the ACTUAL contract. I understand we don't need to talk about it here, but I don't get the impression that people are thinking a lot about the CONTRACT that we will be bound by for the coming years.

That was management's goal by offering a signing bonus. It distracts everyone from the real issue. And it seems the union fell for it hook, line, and sinker. But that's the situation we have.

You're 100% correct. We as a group need to look past the money and evaluate the contract on its own merits.

 

[79%N1]

Exactly....and voting on the TA based on the signing bonus is crazy in that if we vote this down over that, we lose (for who knows how long) the other more important gains achieved. While the TA is not perfect, we have made many gains in pay and QOL that it would be nice to finally receive.

 

[ohplease!]

The deal is flawed BECAUSE it is neither a "signing bonus" nor a "retro pay."

Here's why:

1) If this were a real RETRO PAY, it would be fair to pay FO's 60% of captains since that is roughly the pay rate ratio. BUT RETRO PAY WOULD BE ABOUT TRIPLE THE $13.5M! ie: it would pay each pilot the difference between the old and new contract, since the amendable date. The proposed payout is NOT "retro pay." Then why the 60% ratio?

2) Signing bonus should pay each pilot on the list the same. One vote=one bonus check.

What we have is some silly hybrid formula which appears to be "logical" but is really just a big smokescreen obscuring the real issue:

WE ARE GETTING SCREWED!

I really hope the training dept. adds a logic and critical thinking exam to the upgrade requirement before you get a chance to upgrade. With thought processes like yours, I'd be afraid to fly with you.

 

[sweptback]

It really is amazing what a little money does to otherwise rational people.