ASA MEC draws a line in the sand

[Uncle Bunkle]

There is only ONE reason the ASA MEC wants to keep Flightline. Their PBS system requires several pilots to spend several days EACH MONTH sorting out all the results.
Those guys would, GASP, actually have to go back and fly instead of being paid flight loss to stay in ATL and go to their cozy home each night.
Why the ASA pilots can't see this is beyond me.

 

[centralpilot]

I like PBS. But after talking with some XJT guys...they have way better schedules than we do..

I know that has more to do with pairing construction and I too am not interested in a different PBS system, but if I could get the schedules they have, I would be open to their line bidding, and their whole way of doing things.

Just suggesting everyone be open. I hope we don't spend so much time arguing over PBS systems that we totally miss the chance to actually improve our pairing, reduce the number of 4 day trips, and qol improvements. If the end result is a better schedule, I don't care how we get it.

If we are going to stick it XJT side...I'd rather it be during SLI.

Unfortunately I don't think the company has any interest in a line bidding system, which is why the XJT MEC long ago moved off that position.

I think there are plenty of regular line pilot who are open to alternative solutions. I for one don't care what the PBS brand is so long as it awards similar or better schedules, respects seniority, and is transparent enough to identify errors.

We should not be talking about "sticking it" to the XJT side in any way. We are destined to become ONE group and I'd much prefer it to be a unified group than one which is bitter, hostile, or divisive.

 

[hou757]

There is only ONE reason the ASA MEC wants to keep Flightline. Their PBS system requires several pilots to spend several days EACH MONTH sorting out all the results.
Those guys would, GASP, actually have to go back and fly instead of being paid flight loss to stay in ATL and go to their cozy home each night.
Why the ASA pilots can't see this is beyond me.

You are exactly right on this one!!

 

[enuffalready]

There is only ONE reason the ASA MEC wants to keep Flightline. Their PBS system requires several pilots to spend several days EACH MONTH sorting out all the results.
Those guys would, GASP, actually have to go back and fly instead of being paid flight loss to stay in ATL and go to their cozy home each night.
Why the ASA pilots can't see this is beyond me.

what is beyond understanding is why you wouldn't want to just tweak a PBS system we already have AND ARE HAPPY WITH...a system with years of experience of every possible loophole management has found....... versus one that has not been tested with our work rules, contract and management team.

i couldnt give a crap if 2 or 10 guys are needed to run it. frankly, I have actually benefited greatly from our guys... if i have a question about vacation bidding, bidding around training events, etc all i had to do was call them or heaven forbid, go to the office and have them walk me through it....

frankly we are tired of it. keep your line bidding... keep your pbs system... keep groups separate.....dont pollute us with your crap

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

You're right, September is way too late. My mistake on not knowing that it was put out. Last we heard over and over was your MEC refuses to do testing. That was a long time ago though.

Stick us in the side eh? Ok, I gotcha.

XJET = US Airways I guess.

 

[enuffalready]

You're right, September is way too late. My mistake on not knowing that it was put out. Last we heard over and over was your MEC refuses to do testing. That was a long time ago though.


.

the MOST IMPORTANT testing is what ways management can take advantage of with the system. There is NO WAY you can test for that with a NEW system. ASA has had flightline for multiple years and management has studied every way they can twist and turn it... so again. Why not just fine tune what we have vs starting all over, then being stuck with something that management can actually use against us for 5+ years?

 

[www.]

There is only ONE reason the ASA MEC wants to keep Flightline. Their PBS system requires several pilots to spend several days EACH MONTH sorting out all the results.
Those guys would, GASP, actually have to go back and fly instead of being paid flight loss to stay in ATL and go to their cozy home each night.
Why the ASA pilots can't see this is beyond me.

McPickle "McKnight" is mad because he wants a full time office gig.

It's funny how the XJT minons come on here and talk about wasted ALPA leave when their own guys sit around watching porn and coming into ATL on Tuesday and leave on Thursday. Also, they are on full pay full time leave even if they don't come into the office. At least the ASA guys have to come to work to get paid.


Keep the crying going. It's better than Oprah.

 

[www.]

You're right, September is way too late. My mistake on not knowing that it was put out. Last we heard over and over was your MEC refuses to do testing. That was a long time ago though.

Stick us in the side eh? Ok, I gotcha.

XJET = US Airways I guess.

And watch your side shrink.

 

[dojetdriver]

The rest of the debate notwithstanding, this is false. I have a 44-page paper regarding the ASA PBS vendor research sitting on my hard drive. It was distributed in September, which was WAY too late IMHO, but it was done.

I can't remember, was that vendor research/testing done on simply off the shelf systems, or with workrules in place?

 

[Nevets]

Good to see them show spine for once. We are satisfied with flightline. the last thing we want is your unproven pbs system to be used here. I'm all for improving the PBS work rules but I think flightline has a better PBS system thAn your mec gives it credit for.

It's not unproven. And our MEC has actually tested both systems with real trips and actual work rules. Your MEC doesn't want to take their fingers out of their ears.

The rest of the debate notwithstanding, this is false. I have a 44-page paper regarding the ASA PBS vendor research sitting on my hard drive. It was distributed in September, which was WAY too late IMHO, but it was done.

They didn't use the standard way of comparing, the scientific method. They only researched the methodology and interface but they didn't actually test the theory they came up with. It was not an unbiased analysis.

And it was very late in coming. And that's because they didn't want to do it in the first place. It's obvious they are reluctant to look at anything else other than flight line.

BOTH MECs are to blame. The XJT MEC has made it perfectly clear that they will not entertain Flightline under any circumstances. There are fundamental differences in philosophy regarding seniority in schedule bidding. The ASA MEC is firmly convinced that SmartPref is unacceptable. The XJT MEC is firmly convinced that Flightline is unacceptable. Where does that leave any room for finding an amicable solution?

I find the lack of imagination and leadership on both sides unacceptable. I refuse to believe that there isn't a solution that could be satisfactory to both pilot groups. This business is getting to be as bad as fiscal cliff debate (No taxes vs No cuts). Recent solution notwithstanding, the rigid lines, pledges, etc. did not serve Congress well. We need to avoid that kind of spectacular dysfunction. This debate is threatening the rest of the JCBA and any hope of pilot unity going forward.

Actually, our position was our line bidding or nothing. Our compromises was smartpref. Your position has not moved an inch.

And there has been imagination on our side and the company. But your side keeps turning them down.

what is beyond understanding is why you wouldn't want to just tweak a PBS system we already have AND ARE HAPPY WITH...a system with years of experience of every possible loophole management has found....... versus one that has not been tested with our work rules, contract and management team.

i couldnt give a crap if 2 or 10 guys are needed to run it. frankly, I have actually benefited greatly from our guys... if i have a question about vacation bidding, bidding around training events, etc all i had to do was call them or heaven forbid, go to the office and have them walk me through it....

frankly we are tired of it. keep your line bidding... keep your pbs system... keep groups separate.....dont pollute us with your crap

Because your system would be a QOL concession for the ERJ side. Especially considering that the company want the best thing about your system, vacation low. They also dont want four guys on FTFPL to run any system.

As for staying separate, personally that's fine with me. But the company doesn't seem to want the USAir scenario happen here.

McPickle "McKnight" is mad because he wants a full time office gig.

It's funny how the XJT minons come on here and talk about wasted ALPA leave when their own guys sit around watching porn and coming into ATL on Tuesday and leave on Thursday. Also, they are on full pay full time leave even if they don't come into the office. At least the ASA guys have to come to work to get paid.


Keep the crying going. It's better than Oprah.

Unless things have changed from my time on the MEC, this is false. In any case, with smartpref, you don't need more than one person to be taken off of one trip's worth.