ASA JCBA: Timeline Thoughts?

[79%N1]

Do you guys really believe for one second that Skywest management is going to go for a contract that entails the the best (most expensive) parts of each contract, and oh yea, with all snapbacks, too. Sure! Top pay, highest 401k match, rigs, scheduling, days off, profit sharing, etc. That would be great, until the combined company never gets any new flying and/or shrinks due to high costs. It will be give and take at the table. Pinnacle/Mesaba won't get anything near that type of contract.....and Delta flying will go to them, or the Skywest side. Now, look at all the players for United. Mesa, Go Jets, Colgon, Skywest, Trans States........ALL will be insanely cheaper! It won't be long until they get the flying done by ASA/XJT. The greatest contract ever sounds great, and I'm all for it, except it matters not if there is no job to be had any longer. There is fair and sustainable and then there is pie in the sky dreaming. In reading the XJT message boards, it seems many/most over there feel entitled to the moon because they were bough by Skywest/ASA. I have a feeling management looks at it completely opposite.

 

[NotTooBad]

Do you guys really believe for one second that Skywest management is going to go for a contract that entails the the best (most expensive) parts of each contract, and oh yea, with all snapbacks, too. Sure! Top pay, highest 401k match, rigs, scheduling, days off, profit sharing, etc. That would be great, until the combined company never gets any new flying and/or shrinks due to high costs. It will be give and take at the table. Pinnacle/Mesaba won't get anything near that type of contract.....and Delta flying will go to them, or the Skywest side. Now, look at all the players for United. Mesa, Go Jets, Colgon, Skywest, Trans States........ALL will be insanely cheaper! It won't be long until they get the flying done by ASA/XJT. The greatest contract ever sounds great, and I'm all for it, except it matters not if there is no job to be had any longer. There is fair and sustainable and then there is pie in the sky dreaming. In reading the XJT message boards, it seems many/most over there feel entitled to the moon because they were bough by Skywest/ASA. I have a feeling management looks at it completely opposite.

I think there will be much give and take and of course we will not get the absolute best of both contracts. Both groups will probably sacrifice some of the things we enjoy and gain new things in the process.

As far as making Skywest less competitive I do not think the pilot group is really the determining factor. The fact is we only account for a small percentage of the overall block cost. Since we are going to be the largest regional carrier out there it is not off base to think that we could have far superior contracts for the pilot group and still be substantially cheaper than the competition. Size is the determining factor. The fact that this merger exists proves that they believe that larger is better. It is better because it is more profitable than the existing seperate companies. Since it is an increase in profit for them - why would it not be an increase in QOL and pay for us? They were profitable under the previous agreement and will be even more profitable after this merger. We had decent contracts before this merger - why is it wrong to think we will have better contracts with a more profitable company after the merger?

 

[crj567]

I think there will be much give and take and of course we will not get the absolute best of both contracts. Both groups will probably sacrifice some of the things we enjoy and gain new things in the process.

As far as making Skywest less competitive I do not think the pilot group is really the determining factor. The fact is we only account for a small percentage of the overall block cost. Since we are going to be the largest regional carrier out there it is not off base to think that we could have far superior contracts for the pilot group and still be substantially cheaper than the competition. Size is the determining factor. The fact that this merger exists proves that they believe that larger is better. It is better because it is more profitable than the existing seperate companies. Since it is an increase in profit for them - why would it not be an increase in QOL and pay for us? They were profitable under the previous agreement and will be even more profitable after this merger. We had decent contracts before this merger - why is it wrong to think we will have better contracts with a more profitable company after the merger?

We will be lucky if we don't get the worst from both contracts. At ASA, we have so many spineless Nancys who won't fight for the most basic of things, we may as well have no representation. 2% for what? Remind me, please!

-Think about the last time we won a grievance, or actually had any favorable improvement to our QOL whatsoever.... Think real hard-it was a hell of a long time ago.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Let's think positive. I'm a six-year Capt. at XJT and am currently getting paid $4.46 less per hour than what I should be making due to our concessionary contract. My current concessionary rate is $2.00 more than what APC says a six-year ASA 200 Capt. makes. I'm of the mindset that any pay rate increase must begin at our non-concessionary rates. And 700 rates should be negotiated accordingly.

Good luck, many of us at Mesaba are in the same boat and feel the same but don't expect to have it happen thanks to being outvoted by the combined group.. Cause of that many basically say "if we can keep what we have now we are doing good".... Yes and what we have is a screwjob scamruptcy concessionary contract. Again good luck. At least you are only dealing with merging 2 companies.

 

[JoeMerchant]

So...Anyone want to challenge our union who caused this "pay to play" situation?

Bitching about the game doesn't do any good....Either change the game, or play the game...Those are your choices.....

 

[Nevets]

Congrats, you FINALLY got was I was trying to say. Not only here, but the thread on the crackpipe from months ago.

Anyone ever tell you that you are like a chick? You remember conversations from years ago and always bring them back up in your arguments.

 

[Nevets]

I get all of the arguments presented. My question is why not just say pay v pay, 401k v 401k, B Plan v Non Existent, Non Existent v Profit Sharing, so on a so forth with each major section of the agreement. We are very capable of assessing things individually and if we are going to make a collective sheet that displays the "comparison" of each item why not just separate all categories and let each person prioritize them for themselves? By drawing a comparison in the way above we can see that "XJT has a great benefit in the retirement department - not only is their 401k higher but they also have B plan options - but wait on the ASA side the company has an existing policy of profit sharing that XJT can expect to gain". I'm not saying these are "competing" but it should be a good way for us pilots get a better idea of what we can expect to gain that the other already has.

I am willing to spend some time and create the comparisons for certain parts of the agreement. Is anyone willing to offer some time to create a coordinated comparison and then email it to me and I'll compile in into one document and post it?

Here is why, because 401k matching and B fund contributions are not work rules or benefits. They are part of your compensation. That is why it's called "deferred compensation." It's part of your pay. In this case, pay you would normally get now but deferred it to a later time. It's still GUARANTEED pay. Literally money in your bank.

The other reason why, two years ago when Skywest tried to buy XJT, they stated they wanted to get rid of the B fund. They equated it to a specific dollar amount and of course probably low balled it. The fact is that the new contract will consolidate everything into a single set of work rules and payrates that may or may not have XJT's better matching and B fund. So in order to compare any rates now, the best way to do it is by taking into account the differences now because we know what they are. We don't know what the new contract will have until it's out. To put it another way, if the new contract has the same payrates minus the B fund and or the higher matching, then it's a concession on pay for XJT. On the other hand, if the new contract has the same payrates that we have but we also keep the B fund and higher matching, it would be a huge raise for Asa and status quo for XJT.

 

[dojetdriver]

Anyone ever tell you that you are like a chick?

Wait, I thought you were a chick?

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Do you guys really believe for one second that Skywest management is going to go for a contract that entails the the best (most expensive) parts of each contract, and oh yea, with all snapbacks, too. Sure! Top pay, highest 401k match, rigs, scheduling, days off, profit sharing, etc. That would be great, until the combined company never gets any new flying and/or shrinks due to high costs. It will be give and take at the table. Pinnacle/Mesaba won't get anything near that type of contract.....and Delta flying will go to them, or the Skywest side. Now, look at all the players for United. Mesa, Go Jets, Colgon, Skywest, Trans States........ALL will be insanely cheaper! It won't be long until they get the flying done by ASA/XJT. The greatest contract ever sounds great, and I'm all for it, except it matters not if there is no job to be had any longer. There is fair and sustainable and then there is pie in the sky dreaming. In reading the XJT message boards, it seems many/most over there feel entitled to the moon because they were bough by Skywest/ASA. I have a feeling management looks at it completely opposite.

Great post. We have to decide what is important, and go for that. We can't, and shouldn't, get it all. If management were stupid, and gave us all we asked for, ASA would be acquired by someone in a few years, just like XJet. There is a reason they were losing money hand over fist, not that it was all about the crew contract, but it all adds up.

 

[CFI2766]

Great post. We have to decide what is important, and go for that. We can't, and shouldn't, get it all. If management were stupid, and gave us all we asked for, ASA would be acquired by someone in a few years, just like XJet. There is a reason they were losing money hand over fist, not that it was all about the crew contract, but it all adds up.

I would argue that there are several reasons that the current situation with XJT is what it is, the least of which would be the pilot labor costs.

Should we ask for the moon? Clearly, no.

Should we ask for a contract that rewards the ASA pilots for their hard work over the last three years, and, is not a further concession to the XJT guys? Clearly, yes.

If the Company was negligent enough in their business plan to assume that the XJT guys would take a further slide backwards, this deal could potentially turn very ugly.

No one wants to see the new ASA go out of business. The flip side of that coin, however, is that no one that I know of feels like the new entity should be 'competitive' based off of the amount of money they can shave off of pilot labor contracts.

Time will tell.