ASA hats

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I am asking you how does a hat command authority?? It is what it is. It is a hat nothing more nothing less.

Then show up without a uniform and see how far it gets you. Now try a white shirt. Then add a tie. Try some stripes.... are you getting more effective? Now a blazer.. are you feeling more comfortable that others believe you are a pilot...

A majority of pilots at my airline must share my opinion because the majority elects not to wear the hat. Majority rules correct? If anyone else wants to wear the hat then be my guest. They are optional which means you can wear them or not.

And what would happen if the tie was optional. unfortunately the majority is a herd. Sheeple... Peeple will do what is convienent, lazy and popular. They want the reward without the work.

I dont think they hurt wearing them at the picketing event but I don't think they help either. Again it is what it is, a hat. The same hat mind you that is worn on the love boat. It is not being selfish it is choosing not to wear the hat. Don't blow this out of proportion now.

If you don't think hats at a picketing event isn't hurting or helping then debate why. This is where your debate loses steam. if you can convince me that the hat is unprofessional or insignificant and hurts my paycheck then lets hear why.

Answer me this why do you get so fired up about how people choose to wear their uniform? As long as they follow the rules spelled out in the company manual you have no dog in the fight.

I get fired up because right about the time this industry went bad and 9/11 was the point of no return, companies started making the hat optional.

The companies attitude was: You are just labor to us. we don't care if you look like FA and gate agents. Actually we want to pay you as if you are FA's or gate agents.

Just when we needed our image the most, pilots were lighting their hats on fire and tossing them fresbie style in the trash. It was a rebellion but pilots were biting the hand that feeds them; thier image.

And it is fustrating that pilots will b1tch and complain about thier circumstance but they won't do a damm thing to fix thier situation. They want better pay and work rules but they can't even take pride in their profession.

Being that people are products of thier environement, thier identity is often tied to thier job. If they are making good money and are the envy of many, pilots will wear a Jack Sparrow three pointed pirate hat with a dandy feather: walking down the terminal thinking thier sh1t doesn't stink cause they make 300+/hour.

But take away that conditional indentity of high pay and pilots want to blend in. Now, they don't want to be seen. Their pride in profession is tied to thier work rules and pay. But most passengers don't even know about the draconian cuts. They still think we make a million dollars and work 10 days a month. A pilots (people really) ego is pretty self centered.

It has nothing to do with what we think. What matters is what the passengers believe. The hat is the exclusive image indicator of an Air Line Pilot. No other type of pilot wears a hat. Take it away and now we are just airline workers.

Everyday is a good day to promote the image of a professional air line pilot.

 

[PCL_128]

Public opinion? I am using what FedEx MEC Chair DW said (We got out pilots hats and we got a the best contract) as my basis for public opinion. The FedEx pilots, who normally don't wear hats wore them in the public view to picket.

You're reading way too much into Dave's remarks there. He was making a little joke about his pilots not usually wearing the hat, not implying that that was the reason they got their contract. If he had said that they got the blazers on, would you be saying the same thing?

Whenever any organization markets the pilot image to the public (resulting in influencing thier opinion) a pilot has a hat on. Is the SWA pilot in a recent commerical who wears a hat also wearing a leather jacket? (not sure)

I doubt it. I've always seen SWA's pilots in blazers when doing commercials or print ads. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen an ad for any airline in which the pilot was wearing a leather jacket. Can you find one? I wonder why that is?

No... you have your perception of the public's opinion based on your opinion, I have the a perception of the publics opinion based on the FedEx TA and a SWA commerical...

Again, I view the FedEx TA as irrelevant because Captain Webb had no intention of conveying the crazy notion that they got their TA because they wore hats. As for the SWA commercial, you've said yourself that you don't even know whether the pilot in that commercial is wearing leather or a blazer, so citing it in your argument about the leather jacket doesn't make sense.

The traditional airline pilot wore leather. It was only till later that he wore a suit. And that was after maritime officers, not aviators....

Pilots wore leather for about 15-20 years in open-cockpit biplanes for necessity along with goggles and a scarf. For the past 75 years, pilots have worn the traditional Pan Am pilot uniform or a slight variation of it. I'll stick with 75 years of tradition.

 

[shamrock]

It's true.....just the other day while doing a plane swap, I'm wearing a hat, and the captain isn't. The captain giving us the plane started telling me about the condition of the plane, etc. . . etc....while our captain was standing a few feet away. He refused to acknowledge our captain until he realized that I was the FO,

Refused to acknowledge? Sounds like an A-hole.

And to all the FO's that wear the hat and go anywhere in the terminal....isn't it nice that the people that don't know you're an FO always say, "Hi, Captain", "what can I get for you Captain?"......interesting....

I've been called "Captain" in the terminal more times than I can count with my overcoat on, my hat sitting on the airplane, and nothing more than my ID identifying me as a pilot.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You're reading way too much into Dave's remarks there. He was making a little joke about his pilots not usually wearing the hat, not implying that that was the reason they got their contract. If he had said that they got the blazers on, would you be saying the same thing?

Easy spin doctor...

Dave Webb could of used alot of reasons why they got a good contract. and there are many. But he choose to address hats. The little joke was that FedEx pilots don't wear hats. So the fact that they had to do something that they nromally don't do had comedic value. IOW the FeDex pilots might've been saying.... 'Hats? What does the hat have to do with it?'

Its the economy stupid.... in our case... its the image stupid...

I doubt it. I've always seen SWA's pilots in blazers when doing commercials or print ads. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen an ad for any airline in which the pilot was wearing a leather jacket. Can you find one? I wonder why that is?

I am still waiting to see the commerical. I did a search- no luck. And it very well maybe.... Nonetheless, Leather is becomming more and more common and it is accepted by the public... just not you..

Again, I view the FedEx TA as irrelevant because Captain Webb had no intention of conveying the crazy notion that they got their TA because they wore hats. As for the SWA commercial, you've said yourself that you don't even know whether the pilot in that commercial is wearing leather or a blazer, so citing it in your argument about the leather jacket doesn't make sense.

My two replies above apply....

Pilots wore leather for about 15-20 years in open-cockpit biplanes for necessity along with goggles and a scarf. For the past 75 years, pilots have worn the traditional Pan Am pilot uniform or a slight variation of it. I'll stick with 75 years of tradition.

And sticky glycol on the hem of your overcoat.... which will get on your pant leg and eventually on the flightdeck seat.... :beer:

 

[JediNein]

There is only one type of Airline Employee that wears a hat.

Hmmm, the Skycap? No, no, the limo driver? Ah yes, the lowly limo driver that's making 3x in tips what the FO is making. The Skycap makes more, too.

It must be the hat.

 

[PCL_128]

Nonetheless, Leather is becomming more and more common and it is accepted by the public... just not you..

Yes, leather is certainly becoming more common (unfortunately), but again, to say that it is "accepted by the public" is merely an opinion that isn't backed up by any empirical evidence.

You failed to answer my question: why do you never see a pilot in a leather jacket in airline advertisements? I think the answer is clear: the airlines know that the public expects pilots to wear a blazer, just as they expect them to wear a hat.

And sticky glycol on the hem of your overcoat.... which will get on your pant leg and eventually on the flightdeck seat.... :beer:

Glycol? I haven't done a walkaround in well over a year. Glycol ain't a problem for me. imp:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yes, leather is certainly becoming more common (unfortunately), but again, to say that it is "accepted by the public" is merely an opinion that isn't backed up by any empirical evidence.

Do have any evidence that it is not accepted by the public? Since airlines are amiing part of the uniform I say that makes it accepted.



You failed to answer my question: why do you never see a pilot in a leather jacket in airline advertisements? I think the answer is clear: the airlines know that the public expects pilots to wear a blazer, just as they expect them to wear a hat.

I think the jury is still out on that till one of us sees the commercial. I don't think the public expects the blazer of the the leather. I do agree that the blazer is better, but that doesn't mean the leather is bad.

Glycol? I haven't done a walkaround in well over a year. Glycol ain't a problem for me. imp:

Then stay a capt where you are at................ :beer:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Hmmm, the Skycap? No, no, the limo driver? Ah yes, the lowly limo driver that's making 3x in tips what the FO is making. The Skycap makes more, too.

It must be the hat.

Skycaps and limo drivers aren't airline employees, tough guy... they just work at the airport.

And if you think you can make more bank as a skycap or limo driver..go for it...

But if you want to be a pilot and effectively market our image.....

 

[PCL_128]

Do have any evidence that it is not accepted by the public? Since airlines are amiing part of the uniform I say that makes it accepted.

I would submit that airlines are making the leather part of the uniform simply because it diminishes our authority and respect. It's one more step towards making us nothing but a bunch of blue-collar workers. When NWA was having a survey of the pilots to see if they wanted the leather jacket, one of the NWA MEC reps sent out an email to his pilots that included his response to the survey. Part of that response was this: "I (personally) think wearing a leather jacket
diminishes our image as professionals, which may be the intent." I believe he's absolutely right. You are playing right into management's hands and helping them along in destroying the image of the professional air line pilot.

I do agree that the blazer is better, but that doesn't mean the leather is bad.

If you admit that one is better than the other, then why do you continue to wear the leather? If you agree that the blazer is better, then it seems to me that you would do what is "better." Why wear something inferior?

Then stay a capt where you are at................ :beer:

Hey, I'm not that opposed to the glycol.

 

[scott hall]

bump.