ASA/expressjet & skywest

[Nevets]

Is your current management respecting your contract?

Not as much as they used to 6 months ago.

The "SKWY whipsaw" isn't as bad as you think it is.

I was in the room when JA and BR said we needed to be cost competitive and should take a 16% concession to bring us down to parity with SKW. CAL told our ceo to give them as good of a deal as SKW or they would give the 12 months notice. Of course SKW cpa with CAL took the 16% concession into consideration since they wouldn't agree to the buyout unless the MEC agreed. So our ceo signs the skw cpa, we lose money, they come asking for concession, and here we are again.

The SKW whipsaw is worse than what I've made it seem so far!

 

[skootertrash]

You are, but it is clear that most of your pilots wanted to move on and did with the flowthrough. I was hired at ASA in 1994 and am number 190 out of about 1800. At XJT, I would be number 14 with what appears are at least 2 who aren't even line pilots because of their age above me. 1996 gets you near the top at XJT and it would put you in the 200s here.

We have more "lifers" and we generally aren't as enamored with ALPA as you guys are. I've noticed that the biggest ALPA supporters come from XJT and PNCL...they must serve better koolaid on those properties.

Actualy John, you're 190 out of 1654. Which puts you at 11%. So do you believe that in a DOH situation you should be 4% of an even larger pilot group and gain 6% system seniority?

 

[twott driver]

I don't have the time to read all these posts, so it may already have been discussed. However, another possibility is that while xjt and management thrash out their differences over an extended period of time, ASA could conceivebly be awarded any new aircraft in the meantime, in a continuation of the whipsaw game in a effort to get the xjt pilots on board. Things are going to get interesting, that's for sure, and I have little doubt that Inc will bring all the pressure they can to bare on the pilot groups

 

[cybourg10]

If the 3 way does not pan out based on the arbitration we at XJT are MUCH better off with ASA than on our own. It has been said over and over again by XJT management that we can not make money on our crappy CAL CPA. We will get some kind of raises with this new deal so that plus being a part of a profitable company is not worth killing the deal altogether (I don't think the XJT pilots could kill this deal anyway, it is not like we aren't going to work with our ALPA brothers just because we don't like the situation).

 

[buscap]

I typed this in the seniority thread by accident, which had degenerated into a pizzing contest. More appropriate here.


My stance is that the aquisition would be a good thing for all three pilot groups, the Express contract should not be circumnavigated, but an ASA/Express merger is better than completely killing the deal. Unfortunately, any willingness to bend on the three-way will be exploited. It is enforceable only if the Express pilots are willing to kill the deal over it and live with the ramifications, be they good or bad.

So that's the choice the Express pilots must make. No matter which one is made, the ASA pilots should offer support, for there's not much else we can do anyway. It's the Express contract which we are being used to circumnavigate and it is the Express pilot's decision to make, as to what to do about it.

To make a bunch of noise about whom is aquiring whom and whose contract is better and who has taken what concessions and blah blah blah; all that just makes us at ASA sound like a bunch of opportunistic idiots.

How would the pilots at ASA feel if it was the scope clause of our contract was being circumnavigated?

And to the pilots of Express on this board I would say, get over yourselves a bit. Give this deal serious consideration-three way and two way. Skywest is a good place to be. There has been some whipsaw, but I don't want to think about where we would be without Skywest, aka Comair?

Jerry is known as a shrewed businessmen and I believe the rep is well and proudly earned, but he is not out to ruin anyone. I submit that the pilots of Transtates, Mesa and Comair would most likely love to be working for Jerry.

 

[Nevets]

I don't have the time to read all these posts, so it may already have been discussed. However, another possibility is that while xjt and management thrash out their differences over an extended period of time, ASA could conceivebly be awarded any new aircraft in the meantime, in a continuation of the whipsaw game in a effort to get the xjt pilots on board. Things are going to get interesting, that's for sure, and I have little doubt that Inc will bring all the pressure they can to bare on the pilot groups

Exactly why one list is necessary. But it wouldn't be ASA they award the flying to. They haven't said who the 75 replacement and 15 growth aircraft are slated to either. I know that is not on purpose. The fact that everyone knows that your management is capable of even threatening to do this is exactly the reason why we need one list.

If the 3 way does not pan out based on the arbitration we at XJT are MUCH better off with ASA than on our own. It has been said over and over again by XJT management that we can not make money on our crappy CAL CPA. We will get some kind of raises with this new deal so that plus being a part of a profitable company is not worth killing the deal altogether (I don't think the XJT pilots could kill this deal anyway, it is not like we aren't going to work with our ALPA brothers just because we don't like the situation).

I tend agree with you that this deal is done regardless. So we have nothing to lose by pushing this to the maximum. But I disagree that we are better off with two lists. They will use us against each other. If the deal is broken off, we are just as valuable to others as we were to SKW. And we are way to valuable to CAL for them to let us whither on the vine. If we weren't and we were on such dire straits, they would have just let us go into bankruptcy and let others pick up our pieces. Hell, that would be easier for SKW with their anti one list mentality. Which proves we have leverage in this. Don't sell your ideology short just because you rather live with the master with the mansion versus the one with the shack.

Keep in mind that we went from losing over $30M a quarter operationally to $8M. Another CPA with Airways or increased block hours from UAL/CAL and we may have finished turning the corner.

 

[cybourg10]

I tend agree with you that this deal is done regardless. So we have nothing to lose by pushing this to the maximum. But I disagree that we are better off with two lists. They will use us against each other. If the deal is broken off, we are just as valuable to others as we were to SKW. And we are way to valuable to CAL for them to let us whither on the vine. If we weren't and we were on such dire straits, they would have just let us go into bankruptcy and let others pick up our pieces. Hell, that would be easier for SKW with their anti one list mentality. Which proves we have leverage in this. Don't sell your ideology short just because you rather live with the master with the mansion versus the one with the shack.

Keep in mind that we went from losing over $30M a quarter operationally to $8M. Another CPA with Airways or increased block hours from UAL/CAL and we may have finished turning the corner.

Airways certainly could have bought us some time but the margins would have been so thin it most likely would not have made much of a dent.

You are forgetting that we get to negotiate a new JCBA with brand new language that can prevent Inc from taking any of our airplanes at any time. The free for all whipsaw game that you and others predict does not have to happen based on what we negotiate. Now this is not as preferable as one list but we do have some leverage here and can prevent the aircraft switch-a-roo game.

 

[Nevets]

Airways certainly could have bought us some time but the margins would have been so thin it most likely would not have made much of a dent.

You are forgetting that we get to negotiate a new JCBA with brand new language that can prevent Inc from taking any of our airplanes at any time. The free for all whipsaw game that you and others predict does not have to happen based on what we negotiate. Now this is not as preferable as one list but we do have some leverage here and can prevent the aircraft switch-a-roo game.

Yeah, I understand that if we lose this round for one list, SKW will just whipsaw us during contract negotiations. I personally don't think the language ASA has in their contract now is nearly strong enough to begin with. All this is why I am not afraid to push as hard as the law will allow to enforce our contract NOW!

 

[PBRstreetgang]

JA and BH are pure profiteers, you are just a cost that has to be managed. When JA let chippy try to eliminate the health care that proved their position. JA and BH have F&H on speed dial and will do whatever will provide the largest profit margin, and if it means your health will suffer, sorry its just business.
Wait you will see.
PBR

 

[outtahere]

Where do skywest pilots stand on this issue? Do you all want to join the party, or stay on your on?