ASA contract.....

[wms]

What has been started? Negotiations are slow, that's the way it is. They're not doing IBB any more and things might speed up now that they are entering mediated contract talks. But talk of a strike is premature. There probably won't even be a strike vote until there is a TA to vote down, and we won't even know if it's worth voting down until we get it, maybe in the fall. But the liklihood that there would be a strike just to speed things up is not realistic.

 

[RJFlyer]

General:

I bet Dalpa is looking into it, and if you look at ALPA National and their USAir policies---you might not like their way of doing things.

So you think DALPA will start pursuing a J4J scenario? I doubt it, since it would undermine whatever case ALPA has in the RJDC litigation. Not to mention there's not a single ASA pilot I know who will vote to allow it to willingly happen to us.

I bet there are some furloughed pilots that would take your rates to fly again--until they can fly a larger plane at mainline

They have this option now - ASA will hire furloughees without requiring them to give up their seniority number. VERY few have taken us up on it , so why would there suddenly be a change of heart?

 

[General Lee]

RJflyer,

I know ASA is hiring our guys---and I honestly think that is great. But, when it comes to higher pay at Mainline, I would believe that our returning furloughs would PREFER the higher pay vs 1st year at ASA. So, I doubt they would chose the 1st year deal at ASA---no offense. It will be up to Dalpa and Grinstein----and I think a J4J senario is more likely---rather than 1st year ASA pay. But, don't get me wrong---I think you guys have been great to our furloughs, and there will still be eventual reciprocation on our part---and that will be a FACT.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Nindiri]

So you're saying that while you appreciate what the ASA pilots did for you, you would prefer to simply take all the 70's yourself?

 

[outtolunch]

The 70 seat CRJ is NOT a mainline aircraft......you would be doing a HUGE diservice to the industry to have this aircraft at the mainline.

Now, getting a furloughed pilot his/her job back is and should be a top priority, having the 70's at mainline to stimulate this would be a MAJOR step back in what many want to see at any mainline. Just look at USAIR and what they agreed to in order to help save some of their jobs. That's not ment as a slam but it is the reality of the situation.

I do fly the 70 seat CRJ, and while it is very fast and has a very good range, it is still a "regional" jet. I say this because it is every 50 seat crj you see with 20 more seats and nothing more.

 

[Varmint]

Why doesn't ASA close the hiring doors and bring back all willing DAL furloughs into the available positions. For seniority/bidding purposes they could be at the bottom of the list but for pay purposes they could be paid the F/O rate for the assigned a/c using their longevity from DAL.

Nobody on our list is bumped..nobody is furloughed from ASA because all positions are filled on an as-needed basis only just as if we were hiring off the street..and the furloughed guys are making almost double 1st year rates. Maybe later on down the road the favor will be returned by letting us keep our DOH for non-rev and benefits while being at the bottom for seniority, if we chose to apply at mainline when things turn around.

I know it's not up to us...just an idea

 

[General Lee]

Nindiri,

I never said all of the 70 seaters. Maybe just the NEW ones coming on line. That may not sound good to you, but niether did the parking of all of the 727s, L1011s, and 13 MD11s to us. It would suck. But, the key here is that we may have 30-50 furloughs coming back each month for awhile---and where will they go? We aren't getting any new 100 seaters yet.....Should we just pay them to sit? Or, should we continue to hire new ASA pilots at the same time many of our guys are sitting? They may want to sit at home and get paid, but that probably won't help our company. Don't get me wrong---our furloughs DESERVE to come back NOW---but it would be nice if they could actually fly something---and the only thing I see coming that might be new are the NEW CR7s. Can somebody else come up with a better idea? (one that doesn't include 1st year ASA pay when they would be making 5 times that sitting at home---doesn't make sense....)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MetroSheriff]

Metro,

If you choose to let someone else speak for yourself thats fine.

I speak for myself and I have had enough of the B.S.

Go get 'em tiger!

ASACAP is correct. The pilots need to stop doing everybody elses job. The ramp may have improved but it is still a joke. Crew scheduling is still a joke. Our current contract is still a joke.

I do my job. Sometimes that job includes a polite reminder to ops that the $hitter still needs to be dumped. I didn't say that we should jump on the honey wagon and do it ourselves.

Scheduling sucks, no doubt about that.

Our contract is in need of some big changes.

Let the negotiating comittee do their job under the new arbitrators guidance for a while before you start your little crusade.

That is all I am saying.

 

[MetroSheriff]

The most annoying sentence in the American workplace:

"That's not my job."

My passengers have paid for a product: safe and timely transportation from point A to point B. I will give that to them to the best of my ability, no matter what it takes. It's the way I was raised and the way I have served in every job I've ever had.

Well said!!!

The "Not my job" attitude is what is wrong with the ground service in the first place.

 

[sleepy]

RJflyer,

I know ASA is hiring our guys---and I honestly think that is great. But, when it comes to higher pay at Mainline, I would believe that our returning furloughs would PREFER the higher pay vs 1st year at ASA. So, I doubt they would chose the 1st year deal at ASA---no offense. It will be up to Dalpa and Grinstein----and I think a J4J senario is more likely---rather than 1st year ASA pay. But, don't get me wrong---I think you guys have been great to our furloughs, and there will still be eventual reciprocation on our part---and that will be a FACT.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Sounds like it might be time for me to join the RJDC. If this happens, most of us at ASA have nothing to lose. We might as well destroy ALPA in the process.

 

[sleepy]

Back to the original subject. I heard one of our Chief Pilots say that it would probably be another 2 years before our contract is settled anyway.

 

[MetroSheriff]

Back to the original subject. I heard one of our Chief Pilots say that it would probably be another 2 years before our contract is settled anyway.

That'll give RJCAP plenty of time for his little revolution.

 

[asacap]

wms,

You think there is even a possibility of a TA this Fall? How much money would you like to place on that? I'll give till New Years. Any amount of cash, you decide.

Back to my original point. I know a strike is not around the corner (wms, don't get your panties in a wad). I believe in sending management a clear message that they need to negotiate in good faith and take us seriously or face the consequenses. As long as things go relatively smooth on the flight line, then management will drag this out forever. Also, I never said to sabatage the ramp, I said to just do your job and nothing else. There is a big difference there.

 

[wms]

I said MAYBE in the fall. The point is it's in the future, and a strike vote likely won't happen until after a TA is considered.

As far as mgmt and us; There should be no question to the officials who observe the negotiations in the mediated talks that we will negotiate and act in good faith as always, and the company lacks integrity as always. The record will speak for itself. If we start using dirty tactics, the arbitrator or mediator will consider these things against us. If we continue to exercise integrity while the company continues to use obviously unethical and immoral tactics, it will work to our favor before the third parties in the future. And when it does come time to strike, there will be no question that we have done everything possible to work with the company and within the framework of the negotiating process, while they have used every dirty trick in the book.

This will all work to our benefit in the future just as it has in the past. Arbitrators, mediators and others have all been appalled at the behavior of the company and impressed with our commitment to negotiate in good faith, and it will payoff in the end.

 

[jetflyer]

I think Management's solution to ASA contract negotiations and what do do with Delta's furloughs and Pilot Pay is CHAPTER 11 BANKRUPTCY.

Try negotiating a contract when Delta is in bankruptcy. That will be interesting. I think they're delaying at ASA so that the bankruptcy can happen.

Try getting the furloughs back in bankruptcy. Maybe this would be their best way to get back at Delta actually. All Delta employees are given a pay cut, debt is reduced and refinanced, costs are reduced with vendors and everywhere in the company, and the company becomes PROFITABLE<--that's a word nobody has heard at Delta in a while. Then the Delta furloughs are brought back then.

I think that Delta management will take away some of the non union members pay at Delta Airlines as well in bankruptcy to "SAVE THE COMPANY". They will say that their pay being reduced was a last resort but that it had to be done. They will say that having a union wouldn't have helped them anyways in bankruptcy, so why unionize in the future?

I believe the bankruptcy judge as a last resort will bring COMAIR and ASA's pilot, flight attendant, maintenance workers, etc. pay to right at industry average pay to "SAVE THE COMPANY". The judge will do whatever he deems appropriate because that is his job.
I do think messing with Comair and ASA's pay will be one of the LAST RESORT options though because THEY ARE PROFITABLE.

I think Delta management knows the direction they're taking the company, and I believe they think the best option for the LONG TERM SUCCESS of Delta is Chapter 11.

I think they're intentionally blowing through their cash before too much MORE DEBT is added onto their $20,000,000,000.00 they already have.

I wish the Delta employees, Delta furloughs, ASA employees including pilots in contract negotiations, and Comair employees the best of luck.

The management is bailing the ship quickly at DELTA. They're leaving left and right. I believe because they see the ship SINKING and don't wanna drown with it. Let's hope it doesn't sink too far. Many of us can't leave tomorrow and get an $8,000,000 severance package! Many of us can't afford to leave or lose our jobs at all. Let's hope we all don't join those at Delta that have lost their jobs like the Delta furloughs.

Good luck and God bless us all at Delta, and we should all be praying that things turn out well for us all,
Jet

 

[~~~^~~~]

The management is bailing the ship quickly at DELTA. They're leaving left and right. I believe because they see the ship SINKING and don't wanna drown with it.

The Rats often do know more about the integrity of the hull than the passengers do.