ASA Concessions!!!

[Medeco]

More thoughts

Guys/Girls,


After reading the ALPA/ASA webboard and continuing to become more informed I can say without a doubt that I would not support this proposal at all.

Some more facts:

The Company "floated" this idea at a Contract negotiation session
this was not given in writing in any way. they have done this before on other issues, and when asked for more facts and details, they say the issue is now a non issue the next time the CNC meets with the company.

Leaving section 6 officially, will allow the company to basically walk away from all TA'd sections when talks resume, as I understand it ,they would be able to say things have changed since the past and we want to start over. Delays and more delays.

We will not have a new contract in 10 months anyway, so the company can bid on the RFP based on current labor cost anyway, so this 10 month delay will not change anything.

I believe, that the company is testing the waters to see how unified we as a pilot group are, this still does not mean it is one big conspiracy, it is just the company playing poker, to see if we will show what we have, basically good business from that perspective.

We cannot risk giving up the timeline we currently are on, I think as the economy grows DAL will have no choice but to grow us with it. DCI already has a tenative plan on where the planes will go, and most likely it will remain the same if we say no thank you.


Medeco

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Fabulous, I'm very thankful that most pilots with whom I speak these last few days have taken opposition to the contract extension. The question is how does the MEC determine what they are to do with management's proposal?? Any thoughts?? Is there to be some kind of vote or something? Whatever.

 

[Wats]

e120pilot,
Son, put down the crack pipe! We can get you help. Never give a concession to them. They will keep the money and still not give you the airplanes! Or, They'll give you the flying and then take it away when you won't give even more! Fight them now!

 

[Palerider957]

Good faith effort....

Some of the things that frustrate me and make me wary of management are things they could change with a phone call.

SB and DB seem like good guys to talk with them, and lately I'm impressed with the depth of the reforms they are trying to enact (ACARS if that actually happens, squaring away the fuelers, and a few other things).

Having said all of this, they could increase our QOL by making only a phone call. They could tell Crew Scheduling to straighten the he11 up and follow the contract, not to mention treat pilots with respect. But, they don't do it---if they wanted us to even CONSIDER stalling our contract, why not throw us a bone that wouldn't cost any money and would go a long way to winning good will.

Is this so unrealistic? Why won't management improve employees QOL, especially when they are already asking for favors?

 

[EV120]

Been workin'

Im glad after being slammed for the last couple of days, people are sarting to see the light about this proposal.

I know some would like the extra airfranmes for more "potential" positions. However arewe really ready to sacrifice QOL and the protections of section 6 negotiations to hae this.

I'm not, and I believe my MEC is not either. still have faith in their decisions, and I am sure they will press thecompany for concrete imformation about this "proposal" in three weekswhen they meet.

In talking t my rep last night, I was told tha the MEChasimformed the company that they expect them to be at this meeting, and ready to answer questions.

Final thought...I will not sell myself for a potential rowth. I am an airline pilot. And I expect to be treated and compensated as such. This "proposal" does neither.


My 2 pesos....

 

[Long Time Gone]

Just read my email- NO WAY!!! They can go straight to he!! Where is that # for truckmasters?

1-800-BIG-RIGG

LTG

 

[Russ]

Fellow aviator
You never have answered my question. Did you pay for your job, you know, PFT? This seems to be the quickest way to evict you from a thread, ask you and you never return. I suppose its because the answer you will give is not one you are proud of.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

I HAVE answered that question, and I have never been "evicted" from any thread, as you say. No, I did not "pay" for my job. Did you? Did any Southwest pilot? After all, they have to pay for their type before they are hired. And yes, it does save the company money.

Any more questions?

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Russ, who do you fly for. I have ask you before, and you just vanish from the thread. Could that be because you are not proud of the answer you will give????

 

[trainerjet]

I HAVE answered that question, and I have never been "evicted" from any thread, as you say. No, I did not "pay" for my job. Did you? Did any Southwest pilot? After all, they have to pay for their type before they are hired.

WRONG (AGAIN!) I could apply and be hired tomorrow at SWA (assuming they were hiring and I passed the interview) without spending a nickel. I have a 737 type that was fully paid for by my employer. So, you are completely incorrect that ALL Southwest pilots have to "pay for their type before they are hired". They just have to have one. Where and how they got it is irrelevant.

Unlike you, who did in fact, have to "pay" for your training, which was required by Comair and was aircraft and AIRLINE specific. So, why don't you tell the truth? Or, is it just that you are too stupid to know the difference? Yeah...I think that's it.

As for being evicted, well...do us all a favor. Evict yourself. It would make this board a much better place to hang out.

 

[Russ]

Enough said fellow aviator. You did PFT didn't you? Whether you prefer to look at it in a SWA context or some other way, you plunked down many thousands of dollars and paid for your job at Comair. Original sin, starting from day one making the industry cheaper. As to your follow up quip, I fly for SkyWest. Right about now I am not proud of my employer. I guess the difference is when we did our part to lower the bar. You did it a while ago and now some how feel absolved of your sins as its been a few years. My company is doing its part now. If you like to lord that over me, feel free. Do so with the knowledge that once you suk a d1ck, your a d1ck suker for life. When the starters gun went off, you led the race.

 

[maxcackel]

Opps! Sorry wrong button I thought I selected ASA Conessions not "who's dik got suked" thread

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Ok. Not all SW pilots have to pay for their job, just the ones who do not have a type.

Russ, no, for the tenth time, I did not buy my job. And I would never agree to whore my self out like the pathetic whore you are. You people agreed to fly a 99 seat jet at 50 seat rates so you could get more brand new shiny jets. You spineless b astards are what is wrong with the industry. SKYWEST and MESA pilots have created a situation that we will be fighting for a long time.

Pathetic, just pathetic....

 

[Russ]

OK, thats fine. I voted no on the pay TA, but WE as a pilot group voted yes. So if you want to collectively bash me because I am part of that group, fire for effect. I take some consolation knowing I did my personal part by voting no. Personal accountability is about all we have unless your in management as far as change is concerned. I know I did my part by voting no, I also know you did your part by buying your job. Again, back to personal accountability...
As you post your holier than thou diatribes, consider how many discount what you have to say as your a hypocrite who bought his job.

I have said my peace on the issue, I cede the last word to you.

 

[thesource]

About this pay for training thing. ASA came to UND many years ago. Selected 26 instructors to interview. 11 of the 26 were sent to flight safety to undergo 6 written tests, one psych test, a sim ride. This resulted in 4 or 5 offers of employment. I think in the end only three took the job. But they were offered the job first, contingent on pay for training. In the end 50% was returned to the pilots when pay for training went away. I know it's a strech but these guys were Qualified, had more than 1200 hrs, interviewed, tested, hired. If it was just about buying a job dont you think the company would just take anyone who could afford to pay?

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Russ. I'll have a last last word.

I did not buy my job. When you ask, and I answer, that should settle it. If you are sure about the answer, why ask?



I explained it before. Not all pilots hired had to pay. I was hired as a ground instructor, agreed to ground instruct for two years.

 

[Palerider957]

Enough PMS

As for PFT--Who CARES!

Does anyone have any more info. regarding managements proposal?? Let's try to return focus to this thread.

Does anyone have any info. re: who is going to get the DO328's?? Comair guys seem to think they are coming their way, any reason for this? I guess we really don't have room for them in Atlanta anyway.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Thanks Palerider,
Let's keep the thread about what it was started for. Let the pft wankers get make their own.
I think it would be BIG mistake if those Dork-jets were sent here. Delta hates them and the defered list is as long as the wx package. Big D should put them on Ebay and let some South American country pick them up for their mainline ac...you know, just like the DC-3's!

 

[Palerider957]

That bad??

Are the DO jets that bad?? I remember when we first took delivery of the 700's. They were serious hanger queens, 701 showed up broken!!! It's taken awhile, but maint. has figured out how to service them and reliability has gone way up.

It wouldn't surprise me if the probs. with the 328's were largely at maint. apptitude issue.

Anyway, I would love to have them--growth is growth. I'm not willing to take concessions, or bend over for them, but if offered it would be great to add to the inventory. Just my opinion, anyway SB (as posted earlier) when asked if we would get them, told the group to "think more rationally."

So, I guess our growth is about done.

 

[Russ]

I know I promised you the last word, sorry but one more..

I have yet to meet/read about a Comair pilot from the PFT days who will admit to buying the job. It seems like there were a hundred other back door, ala flight instructor routes to getting in w/o dropping coin. No one want s to admit to it, can't blame them.