ASA Concessions!!!

[wms]

Thanks, it makes sense now.

 

[eaglefly]

Fellow pilots, please don't lower yourself to the Mesa pilot standard.

There is more than enough self-centerd scumbags in this industry already.

 

[e120pilot]

Read it again Eaglefly....we're not talking about concessions!

We're talking about a 10 month pay freeze, and some kind of lump sum retro in exchange for the freeze.

 

[Beavis]

While I agree that going to Mesa wages & contract is out of the question, I dont think that is where this is going. Here is our dilemma at Comair/ASA. We simply cost DAL more than any other contract carrier, whether they be CHQ, Mesa, TSA, Pinnacle,or whomever. This means in the new economics and corporate culture of the regional airlins (see Usair/UAL), contracting out to the lowest bidder wins - FROM NOW ON! This essentially means no further growth for ASA/Comair, and since neither of us have effective scope protection for ourselves, this could mean drastic downsizing in the future! So, while we stand tall, proudly pounding our chests we may lose sight of what is happening around us! You wont hear the same thoughts echoed from Skywest, Chat, or god help us all Mesa when the time comes. Does this make us stronger, prouder men who fight and die on our feet instead of live on our knees? Maybe so. However, where are we going as a group? Is DAL blowing smoke that they need cost savings from DCI cariers? I dont know. But going on as is puts us in serious peril, job growth/security wise. Now I want to make as much money as I can --- and equally or more importantly have the best work rules/QOL as I can. But does being a 7 year FO for $34-36/hr put me there? No. If I could upgrade in 3-4 years and make $50+ offer me that. Sure. Why would a more senior captain stand so firm on $60/hr instead of $59 to ensure the future of his company, therefore his job? If we could get reasonable assurances of the growth as well as improvements elsewhere to our working conditions.... isnt that worth it? If not, we'll just sit idly by, proudly watching (Insert contract company) take over. I'm proud to take a stand too, and I admire Comair for their stands/strike to raise their bar. But what will ultimately happen to us? Cant we both get together, talk to DAL about lowering some costs in exchange for some scope, like 100% of DCI flying over time?? Isnt that worth a price freeze or 1 buck an hour in the short term for all of the long term gains it could bring?

 

[EV120]

Thank god someone explained what section 6 is while I was gone.

If you think this will only be a ten month freeze you have already taken a bite out of the carrot. We dont know what this retro is...yet. And there is no guarentee that there airframes will come here if we sign off on this, which I believe we wont.

I expressed my concern immediately to my MEC about this. I think they and I agree that it would not be in our best interest to leave the protections that negotiation give us at this time.

Why do they need to freeze wages? They already are, and will be for at least another 12-18 months (my guess). We have they lowest wages as it is for DCI. Why should we give them another grace period.

Like others on other threads...If there we more protections for DAL/ASA/CMR maybe...but as it stands no. This is a concessionary tactic without actually asking for changes to a contract.

My 2 pesos worth...

 

[~~~^~~~]

Re: I vote no!

I agree that this is a slap in the face.

6 companies: ASA,Comair,Skywest,ACA(?), Chataquah, ?

who is the 6th, anybody care to guess?

MESA, it has already been confirmed.

 

[bailout]

>Why do they need to freeze wages? They already are, and will be for at least another 12-18 months<

Exactly...
The only way I would agree to a ten month freeze is AFTER we settle this contract. Then we could freeze at what we are now, and in ten months let the new contract take effect so we will know what we are getting.


>I agree that this is a slap in the face.
6 companies: ASA,Comair,Skywest,ACA(?), Chataquah, ?
who is the 6th, anybody care to guess?
------------------
MESA, it has already been confirmed.<<

Sure hes not talking about Eagle, doing our LAX flying?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Nope, I did not stutter, M E S A. Ask the question at the State of the Company meetings.

You are right, other solutions could be agreed to in the contract language. This is about stopping our ability to seek self help, IE strike.

Delta wants more time to operate more non - ASA Connection out of Atlanta before ASA gets released to shut down ATL like Comair did CVG.

Delta's constant reminder that we are not "part of the team" breeds the feeling that we are not "part of the team."

~~~^~~~

 

[wms]

Think about the other issues that would be on hold also. More abuse from scheduling without better work rules. More of these sub-standard reserve rules, etc. All kinds of improvements we've been looking forward to will be on hold. I want these issues settled ASAP. 10 additional months of the status quo is unbearable.

One pilot group caved to a profitable company and now we're all being low-balled. It's out of control.

 

[sf3boy]

e120.
You are right in that the NWA MEC agreed to a two year extension. I also believe that they negiotated a pay increase (around 5%??) for both of those years to agree with the extension. I maybe wrong there, but I don't think that they agreed to a pay freeze.

 

[e120pilot]

sf3boy,

We're being offered some kind of lump sum retro check. The details have yet to be released. We'll see.

 

[General Lee]

Watch out guys, Chitaqua is now bidding on those 45 RJs. Will you take a Skywest type deal ---aka sell the farm for growth?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Stifler's Mom]

This is a very broad statement but....

How about use are current contract that we are working under, offer to fill every single one of those 45 RJs with furloughed Delta guys, and let the negotiations drag on as they are.

 

[Smacktard]

Stand together Brothers...spare me the 'brother' crap. The industry is evolving, do what you need to do for you and your company. You guys can be all sanctimonious if you like, but it would probably be in your best interest to see what the details are on this one. Or make your great stand and watch all the others pass you by. I love how everyone proclaims that they will not lower the bar, but my bet says that next time Comair comes to the negotiating table they won't get jack.

If ASA thinks they can play hardball with Delta (at this time with the squeeze Delta can apply), they're kidding themselves. You need to do whatever is best for ASA, if that includes a 10 month pay freeze, then so be it. Within the next year, as the economy comes on even stronger, the company won't have any choice but to give increases. I actually think this puts the pilot group in a better position for an even better contract. If you aren't a lifer at your Regional of choice, your best bet is growth to get you up and out. I would say vote according to what serves your goals best, isn't the purpose of the vote, afterall.

 

[DDpaysoff]

but my bet says that next time Comair comes to the negotiating table they won't get jack.
[/B]

Don't bet on it.

 

[EV120]

"Some kind lump sum" huh?

They didn't even have the balls to make a proposal as to what that might be.

Just dangling the carrot of phantom deliveries in a 2005 and beyond.

If they would give a real proposal I might consider it. With nothing in writing from the company ie. guaranteed aircraft, guaranteed pay, and guaranteed contact resolution...to our benefit. Whats the point of even thinking about it.

I hope that I'm not a lifer. I don't want to be. I want to leave the place a little better than I found it. Considering a proposal from our management that has no real control over how many aircraft we fly and where we fly them to is pointless.

 

[e120pilot]

EV120,

RELAX! You are going off on a tangent based off assumptions. Why don't you wait until we're presented with more facts, then make your decision.

Smacktard and Bevis,

I could not agree more with your posts. What good is an industry leading contract if your company has no growth or even shrinkage? (sorry to steal Costansa's word)

 

[wms]

I wonder what kind of concessions CA/ASA mgmt are willing to take to get those 45 airplanes and keep the contract carriers off the property?

Hopefully the MEC doesn't let this go to a vote and just says no like CA did. I fear the junior guys would vote yes just because they think it would mean movement, which will come anyway.

Has scope been maxed out, and if so how can there even be more RJs?

 

[EV120]

I am not assuming anything. They gave us nothing concrete.

 

[wms]

What good is an industry leading contract if your company has no growth

You can provide a better life for your family. You can spend more time at home.

Growth is good for people who want to come here, but pay and QOL affects those who are here now. I commute and sit reserve, and have for 2 1/2 of my 3 1/2 years here, and would like nothing better than to get people under me so I can hold a line and not have to deal with scheduling. But settling would not bring much needed improvements. Hopefully none of us will be lifers, but with so many furloughs and substantial hiring be way down the road, we all have to think long term for the time being.

There is a lot to be said for a better pay and a better system and not just for getting into a position so that you don't have to deal with it. And it will benefit those behind us and reverse the trend that has now come to us.

The growth will come regardless, DAL needs it. If negotiations stop now it lets DCI move us into a less influencial position.