ASA Concessions!!!

[e120pilot]

sf3boy,

We're being offered some kind of lump sum retro check. The details have yet to be released. We'll see.

 

[General Lee]

Watch out guys, Chitaqua is now bidding on those 45 RJs. Will you take a Skywest type deal ---aka sell the farm for growth?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Stifler's Mom]

This is a very broad statement but....

How about use are current contract that we are working under, offer to fill every single one of those 45 RJs with furloughed Delta guys, and let the negotiations drag on as they are.

 

[Smacktard]

Stand together Brothers...spare me the 'brother' crap. The industry is evolving, do what you need to do for you and your company. You guys can be all sanctimonious if you like, but it would probably be in your best interest to see what the details are on this one. Or make your great stand and watch all the others pass you by. I love how everyone proclaims that they will not lower the bar, but my bet says that next time Comair comes to the negotiating table they won't get jack.

If ASA thinks they can play hardball with Delta (at this time with the squeeze Delta can apply), they're kidding themselves. You need to do whatever is best for ASA, if that includes a 10 month pay freeze, then so be it. Within the next year, as the economy comes on even stronger, the company won't have any choice but to give increases. I actually think this puts the pilot group in a better position for an even better contract. If you aren't a lifer at your Regional of choice, your best bet is growth to get you up and out. I would say vote according to what serves your goals best, isn't the purpose of the vote, afterall.

 

[DDpaysoff]

but my bet says that next time Comair comes to the negotiating table they won't get jack.
[/B]

Don't bet on it.

 

[EV120]

"Some kind lump sum" huh?

They didn't even have the balls to make a proposal as to what that might be.

Just dangling the carrot of phantom deliveries in a 2005 and beyond.

If they would give a real proposal I might consider it. With nothing in writing from the company ie. guaranteed aircraft, guaranteed pay, and guaranteed contact resolution...to our benefit. Whats the point of even thinking about it.

I hope that I'm not a lifer. I don't want to be. I want to leave the place a little better than I found it. Considering a proposal from our management that has no real control over how many aircraft we fly and where we fly them to is pointless.

 

[e120pilot]

EV120,

RELAX! You are going off on a tangent based off assumptions. Why don't you wait until we're presented with more facts, then make your decision.

Smacktard and Bevis,

I could not agree more with your posts. What good is an industry leading contract if your company has no growth or even shrinkage? (sorry to steal Costansa's word)

 

[wms]

I wonder what kind of concessions CA/ASA mgmt are willing to take to get those 45 airplanes and keep the contract carriers off the property?

Hopefully the MEC doesn't let this go to a vote and just says no like CA did. I fear the junior guys would vote yes just because they think it would mean movement, which will come anyway.

Has scope been maxed out, and if so how can there even be more RJs?

 

[EV120]

I am not assuming anything. They gave us nothing concrete.

 

[wms]

What good is an industry leading contract if your company has no growth

You can provide a better life for your family. You can spend more time at home.

Growth is good for people who want to come here, but pay and QOL affects those who are here now. I commute and sit reserve, and have for 2 1/2 of my 3 1/2 years here, and would like nothing better than to get people under me so I can hold a line and not have to deal with scheduling. But settling would not bring much needed improvements. Hopefully none of us will be lifers, but with so many furloughs and substantial hiring be way down the road, we all have to think long term for the time being.

There is a lot to be said for a better pay and a better system and not just for getting into a position so that you don't have to deal with it. And it will benefit those behind us and reverse the trend that has now come to us.

The growth will come regardless, DAL needs it. If negotiations stop now it lets DCI move us into a less influencial position.

 

[sleepy]

While I agree that going to Mesa wages & contract is out of the question, I dont think that is where this is going. Here is our dilemma at Comair/ASA. We simply cost DAL more than any other contract carrier, whether they be CHQ, Mesa, TSA, Pinnacle,or whomever. This means in the new economics and corporate culture of the regional airlins (see Usair/UAL), contracting out to the lowest bidder wins - FROM NOW ON! This essentially means no further growth for ASA/Comair, and since neither of us have effective scope protection for ourselves, this could mean drastic downsizing in the future! So, while we stand tall, proudly pounding our chests we may lose sight of what is happening around us! You wont hear the same thoughts echoed from Skywest, Chat, or god help us all Mesa when the time comes. Does this make us stronger, prouder men who fight and die on our feet instead of live on our knees? Maybe so. However, where are we going as a group? Is DAL blowing smoke that they need cost savings from DCI cariers? I dont know. But going on as is puts us in serious peril, job growth/security wise. Now I want to make as much money as I can --- and equally or more importantly have the best work rules/QOL as I can. But does being a 7 year FO for $34-36/hr put me there? No. If I could upgrade in 3-4 years and make $50+ offer me that. Sure. Why would a more senior captain stand so firm on $60/hr instead of $59 to ensure the future of his company, therefore his job? If we could get reasonable assurances of the growth as well as improvements elsewhere to our working conditions.... isnt that worth it? If not, we'll just sit idly by, proudly watching (Insert contract company) take over. I'm proud to take a stand too, and I admire Comair for their stands/strike to raise their bar. But what will ultimately happen to us? Cant we both get together, talk to DAL about lowering some costs in exchange for some scope, like 100% of DCI flying over time?? Isnt that worth a price freeze or 1 buck an hour in the short term for all of the long term gains it could bring?

No that is not correct. ASA and CMR have the lowest published CASM in the portofolio. Lower than Skywest or ACA. DAL makes more money when ASA and CMR do the flying. They keep all of the profits (around $32 million per quarter, per airline). Are your aircraft full. Mine have been for the past year or so. The econcomy is turning around. There is already a shortage of seats available for this holiday season. Ticket prices are going to go up, and so are profits.

It would be stupid to freeze our contract talks for aircraft that may or may not arrive. If DAL gives them to MESA or Chit, then they will lose money in the long run. That is their problem. They want us to take the aircraft, but have to save face. Call their bluff.

 

[Palerider957]

Think about the other issues that would be on hold also. More abuse from scheduling without better work rules. More of these sub-standard reserve rules, etc. All kinds of improvements we've been looking forward to will be on hold. I want these issues settled ASAP. 10 additional months of the status quo is unbearable.

One pilot group caved to a profitable company and now we're all being low-balled. It's out of control.

Dam.n you read my mind before I could post........I agree 100%

 

[Palerider957]

Earlier comments about getting growth in exchange for concessions (make no mistake a pay freeze is a concession), are short-sighted at best. Where is it that you all want to go?? DAL/UAL/etc, etc.

Airtran, and JB are only going to hire so many, then they will slow their growth. None of us are going anywhere anytime soon, we really need to make the best of our present positions. This includes hardened contract negotiations and standing up for ourselves.

An earlier poster hit it on the head, if DAL needs us to have and operate more RJ's then we will--if not we won't. Concessions are simply icing on the cake for management to show the share holders. I think ASA is pretty much done growing in ATL, the growth will be out of DFW and I'm not sure how much more of that there is to be had.

We've had a tremendous amount of growth in the past few years, I wouldn't be surprised to see it slowly wind down, no matter what the economic environment.

My greatest fear is that the growth mongers will sell us all out--All domestic flying will be done by Mesa (for $15.00/hr) and all Intl. done my mainline---but that's OK, because, "hey, we're growing..."

 

[wms]

ASA and CMR have the lowest published CASM in the portofolio

And it would be even lower if we merged. DAL's objective is not cost, it's getting the upper hand on labor.

If they would just realize that they don't have to push us around to get us to work wit them we would all work together to make this the best airline. But instead they would rather alienate us to inflate their own egos.

 

[rjcap]

If ASA management wants to bid on these imaginary aircraft, then they can do it right now

This is all a bunch of crap from mgmt. Just tell Leo and Skippy that they can take their phantom 45 planes and let Mesa fly them.. In the meantime ASA can move closer to a strike.

The degraded pilot moral is not from lack of growth but from the same old crap that we deal with day after day at this company.