ASA Concessions!!!

[surplus1]

Wasn't it supposed to be 80 + aircraft that Delta offered Comair in exchange for concessions? How come they're only offering ASA 45 aircraft? I didn't take long for the "growth" airframes to be cut by almost 50% did it?

Just think guys, if you agree, you will get 30 do-jets and 15 CL-65/200?? Will you still get the CL-65/700s already scheduled or are those included in the "deal".

Who will guarantee that you get ANY airframes? Will it be ASA or DAL?

Let's see, if it takes another 18 months (somebody said that) for you to negotiate, how long will it be before the NMB gives you a release? What is the amendable date of the current CMR contract? Maybe we might both be negotiating at the same time?

And the DAL amendable date is when? That will change though since the DAL guys want a 2-year extension in exchange for the concessions, so their new amendable date would be 2007, plus 3 years of negotiations = 2010 before a new contract at DAL mainline. (Since GWB will be gone by then and we'll be 2 years into the Hillary administration - they would be able to strike and get back to C2K pay scales?).

Maybe we should all (ASA/CMR) just agree to a 16 year Eagle type deal with the compensation indexed to the lowest bidder, in which case they might promise 150 "growth" RJs. (Bet Chautauqua couldn't match that, he!! not even SKYW could beat that deal.) Combine that with a 25% cut at the mainline and the Company will rush to profitability --- just in time to vote another 100 - 200 million in executive bonuses and benefits.

Not to worry though, it will mean lots of captain slots for the 2-year guys, who will then get 1000 hrs PIC and be ready for the big bucks at the mainline(s), who by then will have recalled all 8,000 furloughees and be hiring anybody with a license in droves (at Spirit pay rates).

If y'all vote "yes" to that CMR will have to join the party and we can all be "one happy family" again. Ain't life wonderful?

 

[doer42]

I do not post much here but here me. Allievating a company from sec 6 is a huge deal. To allow a company out of sec 6 negotiations under USC allows that company to file with the SEC as such. They, the compay, do not have to reveal a fact that would would impact possible earnrings. And Wall steet could report that a potential strike is no longer eminate and that EPS would no longer be impacted by such. A 10 report requires that an impact on such would state as much. A retro pay requires but at note on that report , but a labor union dispute, realized or not requires much more. This drives the EPS forcast by WS, which ultimalty drives MGT from above. If DAL could report in a 10 report that no pending issures, ie potential strike, the stock price would increase. Good for stockholders and Mangement all except us the people left holding the bag. Correct me if I am wrong Gen Lee.

 

[alitalia]

30 Do-Jets + 15 CR7's = 45 aircraft.

Think about it.


The 8 CR7's that CMR was already scheduled to receive in '04 were included in the "reward" for taking concessions. Didn't take concessions, still getting the 8 CR7's anyways.

Think about it folks. This is nothing but a big mgmt "magic trick". Don't be sucked in.

 

[Medeco]

15 Do-Jets + 15 CR7's = 45 aircraft.

Think about it.


The 8 CR7's that CMR was already scheduled to receive in '04 were included in the "reward" for taking concessions. Didn't take concessions, still getting the 8 CR7's anyways.

Think about it folks. This is nothing but a big mgmt "magic trick". Don't be sucked in.

I'm sorry, I just woke up , and I am trying real hard to think about it, but somehow 15 + 15 just does not add up to 45.

HmMMMM.

SB was asked if this included the 328's and he said no, you guys have got to think a bit more rational here.

I do not want this deal as it is currently known, but I dont buy into all the conspiracy theories either.

It is real simple to me, we either get some kind a written guarantee on a specific number of aircraft or we dont do it. Along with a good retro pay, which could be argued for years.

Medeco

hmmm 15 + 15= 45, I'm trying, I really am.

 

[alitalia]

sorry about the typo...

It's been corrected now. Guess I was fixated on 15...perhaps that will be tonight's lucky lottery number...

PS...sorry if it gave you a headache trying to think so soon after waking up!

 

[dadawgs]

When does this decision have to be made by?

 

[flyboy24]

45 ghost jets

The fact is there are no facts to this bait trap management tactic. If we were guranteed a number of airplanes with the retro pay guranteed I might be in. So we could stop our current contract and make a small contract for retro pay and delivery of aircraft. DCI is going to place the airplanes in profitable areas not necessarily the lowest bidder. With all the expansion is Salt Lake it sure seems sky west might get most of the "45 jets". It seems fishy because I thought after our orders of the 70's next year DCI would soon reach max aircraft from the scope. I'm a junior f.o. and would love to move fast. However I don't believe mangagment has thought about the facts they simply were fishing trying to get the pilots to bite on something that sounds good on paper but has no substance yet.

 

[DDpaysoff]

Re: 45 ghost jets

However I don't believe mangagment has thought about the facts they simply were fishing trying to get the pilots to bite on something that sounds good on paper but has no substance yet.

You're right mgmt is just saying if it worked at chautaqua and mese, let's see if it works here. They already know where those jets are going. "Portfolio Fred", will stand by his nickname and distribute the jets somewhat evenly just like everything else. Only question is who has to fly DO-jet?

 

[Beavis]

Lets face it fellow ASA and Comair pilots. We are a different type of pilot group for many reasons. We will not roll over or fall for DAL's "tricks" or strong arming. However, I believe that means the end of all growth for us both. In fact, I think recent history - or at least the new strategy regarding wholly owned regional subsidaries - shows that we could be continually stagnant or downsized in the future. (See Allegheny/Piedmont) The future looks much brighter for Skywest, Chautauqua and god help us all Mesa! This is the shift in thinking now. (See USAIR, United, Northwest) At ASA we have 100+ RJ's, with only like 15 more orders, and about 18 ATR's. I think this will be about it for us, in fact I foresee the ATR's eventually going away and being replaced by somebody elses RJ's. (See ASA's EMB120's/CHQ's EMB135's) DAL is "right-sizing" us, while expanding their portfolio. IMHO, in a few years time Comair/ASA will be the minority carriers. You just cannot compete cost-wise with the portfolio carriers. Comair is the Delta of Regionals, ASA the American pre-concessions. Mesa/CHQ/Skywest are the Southwests, Airtrans, Jetblues, America Wests....you get the picture, the LCC's of the regionals. And just the Majors are finding it less profitable if not impossible to compete with the LCC's - so will we. To go backwards is almost out of the question, as we dont want to enter the starting gate in the race to the bottom. It seems at ASA/Comair we put a higher value on the job of Regional pilot than do are contemporaries at Mesa, etc... But we cannot expect the next round of regioal growth at DCI. It simply make no business sense. These companies are just plain much cheaper for many reasons. So, as an FO at ASA, I suppose I can expect a 6-7 year upgrade time. All I can hope for is that FO pay is duely addressed in the next contract. Nobody took care of FO's in the contracts of the later 90's because upgrades were so fast. We need to fight against that now, and make our pay and QOL issues as good as we can, and settle in for the long haul.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Beavis. While I may disagree with your view, I do so hoping I am right, not knowing. My view is much diff. than yours.

I feel this is all a con job, and they are doing it because they can. I do not think they make more money with a cl-65 when operated by a contract carrier versus when operated by us.

They pay a fee to us just like they pay it to the contractors. The diff. is they get it all back when they pay it to us.

The 8 700's we are getting next year were a part of the carrot they hung in front of us. We were told they needed concessions so they could "firm them up". No cocessions and guess what? We are getting them any way. Skywest pilots will whore themselves out at 50 seat rates to fly them. Why are they all not going to Skywest?


Another thing fishy is the fact that we have recieved, what, 60 jets the last two years. Why was no mention of "bidding" brought up for those jets? Why were we not ask to "bid" and take concessions for the MCO flying ?


We were told the reason Shi taco was taking MCO was because they have 37 seat airplanes and they fit the market. They gave us all a route map of what they were going to do out of MCO. They never made any mention of the 50 and 37 seaters that you see in DFW. These people cannot be trusted. You cannot take what they say as any thing close to the truth. Certainly not when it comes to concessions.