ASA Concessions!!!

[Palerider957]

Amusing?

E-120 pilot:

I'm glad all of this amuses you. Your tone suggest we should take whatever the company gives us and be happy with it--gee, that's a winning attitude.

Don't think they won't come asking for concessions, escecially with DAL looking to justify hitting their own pilot group.

DAL would love to have us working for Mesa wages. Don't think that the company, for one second, likes or values you---you (like me) are just a unit of production, and the cheapest unit wins.

We need to fend off the whole idea of concessions before it is forced down our throat.

 

[e120pilot]

Palerider and FL000,

These are not concessions! We clearly have differing opinions on this, and that's OK. I'm willing to listen to see what our MEC comes up with, while you guys running around yelling concessions. I said the only way for my pay and QOL to improve was, growth....that applies to pretty much anyone who's on the bottom half of the list. I've never said we should give pay cuts or gut our contract.

I know for a fact that the company doesn't give a crap about me, or any other ASA pilot for that fact. Being a DCI carrier will alway be about who's cheapest. Those of you who think we're at a career airline are misinformed. In my opinion, the best thing for ASA pilots is to maintain our above industry average pay and grow this company. If you want to get a few percent pay raise to sit in the right seat for god knows how long....that's your choice.

 

[FL000]

Palerider and FL000,

These are not concessions!...I'm willing to listen to see what our MEC comes up with, while you guys running around yelling concessions.

I never said concessions, but it is a "bid."

 

[wms]

Why do we consider it OUR priviledge to get more airplanes? If DAL needs more planes they're going to get them and give them to whoever can get them on line the fastest in the area they need them.

DAL says "do us a favor and...
Fly more airplanes.
Fly these junker 328's.
Expand into main line.
Preserve our markets.
and on and on,
and all you have to do to do us a favor is take concessions".

They need the airplanes. They'll decide the best company to use them, and if they take the low road and low ball us, then let 'em.

What I can't understand is why CA/ASA mgmnt are letting DCI use them like this. It's a slap in the face to let DAL dig out of the bottom of the barrel when there are pilots furloughed and we're trying to scrape by on concessionary wages as it is.

PS Sec 6 is moving expenses. Is this an error or does it mean something?

 

[e120pilot]

Section 6 is the term used for our current contract negotiations. It has nothing to do with section 6 of the contract.

 

[wms]

Thanks, it makes sense now.

 

[eaglefly]

Fellow pilots, please don't lower yourself to the Mesa pilot standard.

There is more than enough self-centerd scumbags in this industry already.

 

[e120pilot]

Read it again Eaglefly....we're not talking about concessions!

We're talking about a 10 month pay freeze, and some kind of lump sum retro in exchange for the freeze.

 

[Beavis]

While I agree that going to Mesa wages & contract is out of the question, I dont think that is where this is going. Here is our dilemma at Comair/ASA. We simply cost DAL more than any other contract carrier, whether they be CHQ, Mesa, TSA, Pinnacle,or whomever. This means in the new economics and corporate culture of the regional airlins (see Usair/UAL), contracting out to the lowest bidder wins - FROM NOW ON! This essentially means no further growth for ASA/Comair, and since neither of us have effective scope protection for ourselves, this could mean drastic downsizing in the future! So, while we stand tall, proudly pounding our chests we may lose sight of what is happening around us! You wont hear the same thoughts echoed from Skywest, Chat, or god help us all Mesa when the time comes. Does this make us stronger, prouder men who fight and die on our feet instead of live on our knees? Maybe so. However, where are we going as a group? Is DAL blowing smoke that they need cost savings from DCI cariers? I dont know. But going on as is puts us in serious peril, job growth/security wise. Now I want to make as much money as I can --- and equally or more importantly have the best work rules/QOL as I can. But does being a 7 year FO for $34-36/hr put me there? No. If I could upgrade in 3-4 years and make $50+ offer me that. Sure. Why would a more senior captain stand so firm on $60/hr instead of $59 to ensure the future of his company, therefore his job? If we could get reasonable assurances of the growth as well as improvements elsewhere to our working conditions.... isnt that worth it? If not, we'll just sit idly by, proudly watching (Insert contract company) take over. I'm proud to take a stand too, and I admire Comair for their stands/strike to raise their bar. But what will ultimately happen to us? Cant we both get together, talk to DAL about lowering some costs in exchange for some scope, like 100% of DCI flying over time?? Isnt that worth a price freeze or 1 buck an hour in the short term for all of the long term gains it could bring?

 

[EV120]

Thank god someone explained what section 6 is while I was gone.

If you think this will only be a ten month freeze you have already taken a bite out of the carrot. We dont know what this retro is...yet. And there is no guarentee that there airframes will come here if we sign off on this, which I believe we wont.

I expressed my concern immediately to my MEC about this. I think they and I agree that it would not be in our best interest to leave the protections that negotiation give us at this time.

Why do they need to freeze wages? They already are, and will be for at least another 12-18 months (my guess). We have they lowest wages as it is for DCI. Why should we give them another grace period.

Like others on other threads...If there we more protections for DAL/ASA/CMR maybe...but as it stands no. This is a concessionary tactic without actually asking for changes to a contract.

My 2 pesos worth...

 

[~~~^~~~]

Re: I vote no!

I agree that this is a slap in the face.

6 companies: ASA,Comair,Skywest,ACA(?), Chataquah, ?

who is the 6th, anybody care to guess?

MESA, it has already been confirmed.

 

[bailout]

>Why do they need to freeze wages? They already are, and will be for at least another 12-18 months<

Exactly...
The only way I would agree to a ten month freeze is AFTER we settle this contract. Then we could freeze at what we are now, and in ten months let the new contract take effect so we will know what we are getting.


>I agree that this is a slap in the face.
6 companies: ASA,Comair,Skywest,ACA(?), Chataquah, ?
who is the 6th, anybody care to guess?
------------------
MESA, it has already been confirmed.<<

Sure hes not talking about Eagle, doing our LAX flying?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Nope, I did not stutter, M E S A. Ask the question at the State of the Company meetings.

You are right, other solutions could be agreed to in the contract language. This is about stopping our ability to seek self help, IE strike.

Delta wants more time to operate more non - ASA Connection out of Atlanta before ASA gets released to shut down ATL like Comair did CVG.

Delta's constant reminder that we are not "part of the team" breeds the feeling that we are not "part of the team."

~~~^~~~

 

[wms]

Think about the other issues that would be on hold also. More abuse from scheduling without better work rules. More of these sub-standard reserve rules, etc. All kinds of improvements we've been looking forward to will be on hold. I want these issues settled ASAP. 10 additional months of the status quo is unbearable.

One pilot group caved to a profitable company and now we're all being low-balled. It's out of control.

 

[sf3boy]

e120.
You are right in that the NWA MEC agreed to a two year extension. I also believe that they negiotated a pay increase (around 5%??) for both of those years to agree with the extension. I maybe wrong there, but I don't think that they agreed to a pay freeze.