ASA closer to a strike

[sweptback]

again, I agree with all that with the exception of alpa payrates being a roadblock. they are simply too high and alpa has not budged on them. those rates WILL NOT FLY. come off those and drop the retirement bs for better 401k match and IMO we'll get a deal done sooner rather than later.

ALPA has dropped the rates. The company just hasn't made enough movement to justify negotiating any further!

I agree that a better 401k match is in everybody's best interest. Actually, this is one of the items that the company and union are the closest on. The fight is over having the pilots in their own 401k plan, mainly.

 

[ohplease!]

ALPA has dropped the rates. The company just hasn't made enough movement to justify negotiating any further!

quote]Nor has ALPA. The company moved a great deal this last time around. AS TOLD TO ME DIRECTLY BY TWO MEMBERS OF THE CNC. Nearly everything ALPA was asking for was agreed to.The only thing holding it up was ASA trying to tie it all to PBS. Straight from 2 CNC members to me...not 2nd or 3rd or blah blah blah hand. So, either I'm being lied to by the CNC or you are twisting the "facts".

All I'm saying is this: if what Chris and Yngve told me face to face is accurate, IMO if ALPA moved ANY AT ALL on pay and retirement mgmt. would move to some type PBS system that would be at least "acceptable" to the pilot group. Since Yngve believes we'll have PBS eventually anyway, they need to get it done now.

 

[crjskipper]

ohplease - if what they said is true then surely the nmb will release us right? Not gonna happen. Also ask the CNC why our trusted union leader denied a company request (from pilots) to allow voluntary displacments from the 700 to the 200. The CNC has lied directly to my face in the crew lounge more than once when I asked them about progress or why certain items were or were not open.

 

[701EV]

crjskipper,

Mgmt got you hook line and sinker on the 700 displacements and you fell for it! You have to ask yourself a question. Why didn't Scott Hall just put out 10 vacancies for the CRJ200, but they did not. It would have worked the same way as voluntary displacements. They want you to think that ALPA is trying to hurt you and the company is looking out for you. YEAH RIGHT! If they would have put out 10 vacencies only 10 pilots would have moved. Now with the displacements their is probably 50 pilots moving all over the place, swapping planes and swapping seats and increasing our costs of retraining pilots.

701EV

 

[ASA_Aviator]

crjskipper,

Mgmt got you hook line and sinker on the 700 displacements and you fell for it! You have to ask yourself a question. Why didn't Scott Hall just put out 10 vacancies for the CRJ200, but they did not. It would have worked the same way as voluntary displacements. They want you to think that ALPA is trying to hurt you and the company is looking out for you. YEAH RIGHT! If they would have put out 10 vacencies only 10 pilots would have moved. Now with the displacements their is probably 50 pilots moving all over the place, swapping planes and swapping seats and increasing our costs of retraining pilots.

701EV

The company asked the union if they would allow the pilots to move aicraft that wanted to move (to avoid a displacement bid), and the union said no. The union wanted the company to follow the contract to the letter, and run the displacement. It is in the union's best interest to cause the company to have a displacement bid because it makes the company management look like the bad guys...

Thanks ALPA! Chalk another one up for the union doing what is in our best interest boys! Man, am I glad that I'm a member, and paying my 2%!!!!!!

 

[socony_air]

That is innaccurate & irresponsible.

The union wanted voluntary displacements applied evenly accross the seniority list. They did not like the position of allowing some fairly senior 700 pilots the option of moving wherever they wanted & not the rest of us. The company could have offered voluntary moves accross the board & it would have been fine. It would have also saved countless $ in training cycles. However, management would have lost the political tool of forced displacements & they are not interested in that.

Have you taken the time to notice that some very vocal union reps are at risk of being displaced? Would you take a 40% paycut just to make the company look like the "bad guys"? That is just rediculous - not to mention mgt. does just fine on that front without any help from the union.

I hope you fly with more accuracy than you report.

 

[701EV]

ASA_Aviator,

You fell for it also.

Wake up and smell the coffee!

701EV

 

[asqmatt]

Well say goodbye to another 70, EV702 heading to skywest tomorrow.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

That is innaccurate & irresponsible.

The union wanted voluntary displacements applied evenly accross the seniority list. They did not like the position of allowing some fairly senior 700 pilots the option of moving wherever they wanted & not the rest of us. The company could have offered voluntary moves accross the board & it would have been fine. It would have also saved countless $ in training cycles. However, management would have lost the political tool of forced displacements & they are not interested in that.

Have you taken the time to notice that some very vocal union reps are at risk of being displaced? Would you take a 40% paycut just to make the company look like the "bad guys"? That is just rediculous - not to mention mgt. does just fine on that front without any help from the union.

I hope you fly with more accuracy than you report.

Lets assume that you are 100% correct. The union still has an interest in forcing the displacement. It will piss people off, as well as prevent those fairly senior 700 pilots move around, so of course they aren't going to allow it. They can act fair minded, yet still promote an anti-company agenda.

I'm not saying I'm surprised, just disappointed. You are correct about the cost of this displacement.

I do agree with you unionites on one thing though. Lets get on with the proffer of arbitration, and get on to cooling off so we can either strike or get a contract. I'm tired of this crap.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Well say goodbye to another 70, EV702 heading to skywest tomorrow.

And you know this how? I thought it was 702EV.

Dick

 

[asqmatt]

Well say goodbye to another 70, 702EV heading to skywest tomorrow. my bad. I was routed up there today.

 

[SuperKooter]

crjskipper,

Mgmt got you hook line and sinker on the 700 displacements and you fell for it! You have to ask yourself a question. Why didn't Scott Hall just put out 10 vacancies for the CRJ200, but they did not. It would have worked the same way as voluntary displacements. They want you to think that ALPA is trying to hurt you and the company is looking out for you. YEAH RIGHT! If they would have put out 10 vacencies only 10 pilots would have moved. Now with the displacements their is probably 50 pilots moving all over the place, swapping planes and swapping seats and increasing our costs of retraining pilots.

701EV

Yeah, thats it you really figured it out. BTW 701ev is now 609SK just so you know.

 

[ASARJMan]

Yeah, thats it you really figured it out. BTW 701ev is now 609SK just so you know.

Superpooper, go fuk yourself! We know 701 left ASA. So what. You get on with Continental and still frequent the regional board with your inferior knowledge and asinine comments! Go study willya!

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Yeah, thats it you really figured it out. BTW 701ev is now 609SK just so you know.

We appreciate your interest there suppercolon!

Any ideas as to how long it will take the proffer to be processed and action to commence? I understand what happens when it happens, but how long?

Anyone?

Dick

 

[Bizjet]

Lets assume that you are 100% correct. The union still has an interest in forcing the displacement. It will piss people off, as well as prevent those fairly senior 700 pilots move around, so of course they aren't going to allow it. They can act fair minded, yet still promote an anti-company agenda.

I'm not saying I'm surprised, just disappointed. You are correct about the cost of this displacement.

I do agree with you unionites on one thing though. Lets get on with the proffer of arbitration, and get on to cooling off so we can either strike or get a contract. I'm tired of this crap.

The company asked for voluntary displacements for the pilots on the 700 only, knowing that the union would not take that offer unless it was for all pilots. The company gets those self-serving pilots who fly the 700 all pissed off because they can't have special rights not afforded all pilots. The union did the right thing in a no win situation. Anyone who posts on this forum that the union is at fault on this issue is a self serving, it's all about me and screw everyone else jerk off. There are quite a few who have always bid on the highest paid equipment we have. Once they got on the 700 as a junior reserve pilot they pissed and moaned about their quality of life and wanted to go back to the 200. Well they should have listened to those who told them that would happen or just kept their mouths shut and fly what they bid! Some of those were the ones who supported mixed flying lines via dual qualification just so they could force everyone else to give some to help them from their own stupid mistake.

 

[John Pennekamp]

again, I agree with all that with the exception of alpa payrates being a roadblock. they are simply too high and alpa has not budged on them. those rates WILL NOT FLY. come off those and drop the retirement bs for better 401k match and IMO we'll get a deal done sooner rather than later.

So what do you propose? Shall we undercut Mesa and secure ALL of the DCI flying just to "get' er dun"?

 

[ASADriver]

So what do you propose? Shall we undercut Mesa and secure ALL of the DCI flying just to "get' er dun"?

I didn't get that from OhPlease. I don't believe he said "lets undercut Mesa". Why do you ALPA types label anyone who wants to be more reasonable as wanting to take a paycut and undercut Mesa? The current managment proposal on payrates is higher than Mesa, so I don't think anyone is advocating taking less that that - but keep saying it if it makes you feel important Mr. ALPA.

 

[John Pennekamp]

The company asked the union if they would allow the pilots to move aicraft that wanted to move (to avoid a displacement bid), and the union said no. The union wanted the company to follow the contract to the letter, and run the displacement. It is in the union's best interest to cause the company to have a displacement bid because it makes the company management look like the bad guys...

Thanks ALPA! Chalk another one up for the union doing what is in our best interest boys! Man, am I glad that I'm a member, and paying my 2%!!!!!!

That's a pretty obtuse and self serving statement. I question how you think "the union" (and what's that mean? We ALL are "the union") would do this to screw the company.

Look at the seniority of the MEC. Zerberini is a mid level -200 CA, losing line quality. Utley's a senior SLC -700 CA being displaced to ATL. He will have to commute to ATL from DFW now. Newhouse is a senior -200 CA. He will lose line quality to more senior -700 CAs coming down. Mohr is a mid seniority ATR CA, he won't be affected that much... until he tries to go back to the jet. Farruzi is a junior ATR CA who is probably getting cut in the next displacement to ATR FO. Him being the resident bigmouth of the MEC, I doubt he would do something that screws him, just to screw the company. Yet he posted on the ALPA message board that he supports it because it's what's best for the pilot group as a whole.

So you can see that this will effect every member of the MEC in some way. I don't think they are acting in spite of the company as you suggest, but rather trying to play cards with a really crappy hand that was dealt to them.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I didn't get that from OhPlease. I don't believe he said "lets undercut Mesa". Why do you ALPA types label anyone who wants to be more reasonable as wanting to take a paycut and undercut Mesa? The current managment proposal on payrates is higher than Mesa, so I don't think anyone is advocating taking less that that - but keep saying it if it makes you feel important Mr. ALPA.

So then, Mr Company, if not undercut mesa, what figure should we land on? Tell it to us in a percentage, as in Skywest-2%? Mesa +2%? Tell us what they should settle for!

 

[Turkey Shoot]

I am growing tired of this finger pointing about some pilots being self serving, blah, blah. Isn' this what this contract is being held up about? A few senior CA's that want that retirement and to keep getting pay raises even though they've been at ASA for over twenty years? They've got their 19 days off a month and are able to pick their lines instead of bidding and hoping. Wouldn't it be better if they took it for the more junior end of the pilot spectrum?

I hope one day that I can say.....

Wow, I'm famous. I finally made it into someone's signature line. Guess Mr Big Shot First Officer wouldn't like flying with me. And yes, it IS MY aircraft. I earned it, I signed for it, and it's my butt on the line if something gets screwed up!