ASA closer to a strike

[IFLYASA]

One of the things that irritates me is RETRO PAY.....Every man in my family is an airline pilot, and ALL of them laugh when I bring up retro. Yea, sure we got it on the last contract- BEFORE THE LARGEST GROWTH SPURT IN COMPANY HISTORY. Also Express Jet and NetJets got it also. NetJets is in a whole different game, IMHO, and Express Jet hasn't exactly come through shining as a result. So in the words of Dr. Phil- "Yea, and hows THAT working for ya?" Is retro TRULY worth losing a job over??? Oh, and the argument that retro is needed to keep a four year contract negotiation session from happening isn't going to fly here- Should have done like Delta and every other major. Two years and walk........Plus it didn't disuade management from pulling another delayed contract in round II for our new one.

IMHO, no retro, duty rigs, and 5-7% with no Dual Qual- Scope clause a must!!!

Simply put, if we don't get any type of retro for the hell management has put us through, I will NEVER vote on it.

 

[wms]

I'll also vote no for anything with integration days, and for anything with sec. 13 TA'd as it is.

 

[No Delay]

Originally Posted by fam62c
It's unfortunate, but in the modern world of the National Mediation Board (NMB) and the current political climate the ASA pilots have very little leverage. In the last few years the NMB has has decided that the intent of the Railway Labor Act was solely to prevent strikes. The traditional balance between insuring that interstate commerce is not interrupted while still allowing for the possibility that a deal may not be reached and mediation must end has been disrupted. The NMB has introduced the concept of "endless mediation." Nowdays you sit in mediation forever and if the talks aren't progressing the NMB simply puts the talks on hold and no meetings get scheduled. This is really the opposite of what the NMB is supposed to be doing; they are supposed to mediate the negotiations and push the parties hard for a deal through intense negotiations. If a deal can't be reached and mediation is not working they are supposed to release the parties to seek self-help. This additional pressure often results in deals because both parties tend to make their best efforts when faced with a work stoppage. Recently airline managements have been taught that it's no longer necessary to actually work to produce a deal because the union no longer has any credible strike threat. The management teams hold all of the cards and they know it.

The new reality for the unions is that negotiations will end when the union argees to a deal that is acceptable to the company. If this doesn't happen mediation will go on forever and there will be no possibility of release. The only way a release will happen is if the company initiates the request because it thinks it can replace striking workers and bust the union (NWA mechanics). The current administration is all about protecting corporate America and strikes are not good for corporate America. The government has the ability to make sure that unions in the airline industry can never strike so from their viewpoint; why would they possibly allow a strike to happen if it can be prevented?

If it becomes so apparent that the NMB is bias toward the company, or no real effort is being put into the negoiations, such as being parked for long periods of time...could not some type of legal action be taken? Is it possible to sue the NMB? Can RLA not be challenged in court?

If people can sue and challenge over gay marriages...surely this can be too??

Seems like this is an issue ALPA national should be doing.

 

[homerjdispatch]

No, the NMB will not deny the proffer simply because they know ALPA will reject it. If you don't know what you're talking about, you shouldn't say anything.

That being said, according to our MEC it is likely that the first request for proffer will be denied. That doesn't mean we can't file another once we respond to the reason why the NMB denied it.

Thats what I was trying to say...

 

[atrdriver]

Between the last company offer and the current ALPA position, however closer to the management offer. Otherwise this will go on forever and aircraft will be transferred. If you bump up the 50 rates a little, add in a bonus, and improve the rigs a little, it will be acceptable to most. Holding out for big 70 increases, and retirement is just going to drag this out forever.

It would take a large improvement in rigs, as well as keeping premium, and more than just a "little" increase in 50 rates. You keep saying that ALPA needs to come closer to the middle, well most of us say that the company needs to come closer to the middle. There is 1 employee group at this company that is keeping this place running and generating huge profits, and that employee group needs to be rewarded for their efforts. No, I don'lt think that we need a huge payraise, but I will NOT ACCEPT, under any circumstances, a reduction in pay, or even status quo on payrates. And like it or not, loss of premuim pay, without a good trip and duty rig, and min day, will result in a paycut for me. And I don't fly naps.

 

["GO AROUND"]

again, I agree with all that with the exception of alpa payrates being a roadblock. they are simply too high and alpa has not budged on them. those rates WILL NOT FLY. come off those and drop the retirement bs for better 401k match and IMO we'll get a deal done sooner rather than later.

ALPA didn't respond by lowering the payrates cause the companies offer was so lame. Why should they come down 5% when the company came up from current book so little?

 

[VeeOne]

Just call it 5% with profit sharing and call it done- It's almost guaranteed money anyways. What, we lost money ONE quarter when we first started up. I'll take those odds.

 

[TheGuat]

Well Im 26 pretty good looking, have a black on black 2006 S2000, alwasy shine my shoes wear my hat ever so slightly to the side, where my jacket when the temp calls for it, and as a matter of fact I do have a very nice Chase-Durer watch, hey what can say when girls see me in my uniform they can;t help but look and smile, and believe it or not a few looks & smiles have turned into some pretty interesting nights, Hey I am proud of what I do.


P.S. now when I am in the cockpit I loosen my tie and I am by no means arrogent, just try to resemble Leonarido Dicaprio in, "catch me if you can" hahaah. First impression may imply I am cocky, and this and that, but I show the utmost respect for my captains, becuase they know more than me, and I honestly like to show up to work looking professional!

 

[ASADriver]

It would take a large improvement in rigs, as well as keeping premium, and more than just a "little" increase in 50 rates. You keep saying that ALPA needs to come closer to the middle, well most of us say that the company needs to come closer to the middle. There is 1 employee group at this company that is keeping this place running and generating huge profits, and that employee group needs to be rewarded for their efforts. No, I don'lt think that we need a huge payraise, but I will NOT ACCEPT, under any circumstances, a reduction in pay, or even status quo on payrates. And like it or not, loss of premuim pay, without a good trip and duty rig, and min day, will result in a paycut for me. And I don't fly naps.

Maybe for you, but many would vote for a deal that is just a little better than what the company's last offer was. Most are willing to give up premium. Sorry if you don't agree, but remember majority rules.

 

[ASADriver]

ALPA didn't respond by lowering the payrates cause the companies offer was so lame. Why should they come down 5% when the company came up from current book so little?

Looking at the rates, the companies payrates look closer to the industry standard than ALPA's. Yes I would rather have ALPA's rates, but that isn't how this works. Bump up the 50 rates just a little, extend the longevity to 18 years and you are done on the rates. Most will vote for that.

 

[ohplease!]

It would take a large improvement in rigs, as well as keeping premium, and more than just a "little" increase in 50 rates. You keep saying that ALPA needs to come closer to the middle, well most of us say that the company needs to come closer to the middle. There is 1 employee group at this company that is keeping this place running and generating huge profits, and that employee group needs to be rewarded for their efforts. No, I don'lt think that we need a huge payraise, but I will NOT ACCEPT, under any circumstances, a reduction in pay, or even status quo on payrates. And like it or not, loss of premuim pay, without a good trip and duty rig, and min day, will result in a paycut for me. And I don't fly naps.

thats the dumbest, most self serving statement I've heard in a very long time. It ranks right up there with "this is MY airplane, you're just an FO".

 

[Scope out RJ's]

thats the dumbest, most self serving statement I've heard in a very long time. It ranks right up there with "this is MY airplane, you're just an FO".

Shouldn't you be busy kissing the hind end of management!?

 

[AMANSWORLD]

Well the bottom line is very simple it is time for both the company and ALPA to put up or shut up. I for one would like to stay gainfully employed, however I will not be subjected to a less than desireable company or contract. One of the things I would like to see is a major revamping if you will of management. Sooner or later companies will figure out if you treat your employees right they will take very good care of the company. There is no reason that we , the labor and management cannot be beneficial to ourselves and more importantly our customers. If we as a company serve a better service than our competitors we will be able to charge more thus we have a better company overall. I hope a true ASA/Skywest management individual reads this and places some stock in the fact that most of our pilot group have no trust in you anymore and the fact is very simple changes need to be made.

 

[VeeOne]

Looking at the rates, the companies payrates look closer to the industry standard than ALPA's. Yes I would rather have ALPA's rates, but that isn't how this works. Bump up the 50 rates just a little, extend the longevity to 18 years and you are done on the rates. Most will vote for that.

I couldn't agree more. However, if it's not approved by the MEC, then we don't even get to vote on it. It's already been stated that nothing will be passed out to vote that isn't up to ALPA's standard. So- maybe we get to vote before we strike and maybe we don't........

 

[HoserASA]

Maybe for you, but many would vote for a deal that is just a little better than what the company's last offer was. Most are willing to give up premium. Sorry if you don't agree, but remember majority rules.

And the majority have told the MEC and CNC what we want in the contract. So, remember, majority rules!

Hoser

 

[John Pennekamp]

get them to offer it by making moves to meet them in the middle, something that IMO ALPA isn't doing right now. Like I said before, over and over, drop the huge payraise % and drop the retirement fund that isn't worth sh!t anyway (see story after story on this subject) in exchange for "some" control over PBS, which we are going to get sooner or later, and QOL/job protection language.

Never said I had ANY inside track on anything (well, maybe scheduling ). I can look at what IS happening NOW (SLC, 70s transfered, 90s diverted) and look at past history and figure out what that light down there at the end of that tunnel is....Nothing is permanent. If you've been around as long as you claim and been through this before, then you know that. Todays boom can be tomorrows bust. I've been through Eastern and Northwest. Sticking our heads (alpa) in the sand and saying "its mgmt. using threats and intimidation" is going to lead to bad places that we don't need to go. There ARE other alternatives that can appease BOTH groups.

BTW, you and I are much more alike than you would like to ever admit. You just have to be less kneejerkreactionary and more open to objective thought. Those black helicopters are not followoing you. Trust me.:beer:

You do realize that that "huge payraise" is to BRING US UP to industry standard, then add QOL. It is about Skywest 50/70/90 plus QOL. This is why you can't look at numbers in a vacuum. If we only took a 3% raise overall, we'd still be below everyone except Mesa!

 

[John Pennekamp]

Between the last company offer and the current ALPA position, however closer to the management offer. Otherwise this will go on forever and aircraft will be transferred. If you bump up the 50 rates a little, add in a bonus, and improve the rigs a little, it will be acceptable to most. Holding out for big 70 increases, and retirement is just going to drag this out forever.

Losing 700s and 900s to Skywest will not be what is best for the majority. Why can't you see that? If you really want to do what is best for the majority, you will come of some of the over the top demands and get this done. Status quo isn't good for any ASA pilot.

I wager that the transfers will continue even if we settle. Why can't you see that?

 

[ohplease!]

You do realize that that "huge payraise" is to BRING US UP to industry standard, then add QOL. It is about Skywest 50/70/90 plus QOL. This is why you can't look at numbers in a vacuum. If we only took a 3% raise overall, we'd still be below everyone except Mesa!

what I realize is there are MANY ways to make additional $$$. Hourly rate has little to do with it in the end.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Just call it 5% with profit sharing and call it done- It's almost guaranteed money anyways. What, we lost money ONE quarter when we first started up. I'll take those odds.

5% with profit sharing would still put us about 10% below industry standard!
To achieve industry standard, we'd need about a 10% pay raise. Industry leading would be about 17%.

That's why the numbers the company are putting out are so misleading!

 

[John Pennekamp]

what I realize is there are MANY ways to make additional $$$. Hourly rate has little to do with it in the end.

You're right. And management hasn't offered us any of them. They even had the nerve to offer us a watered down version of the Skywest bonus plan that would base it on Net pay instead of Gross pay. That is a lot less what Skywest pilots get.

If they offered us word for word what Skywest pilots get, it would be about a 17% cost increase, total package. They are not going to do that, because they've already said the union's numbers at 15% are ridiculous. What they are going to do is knock us back to a 5-10% total increase, settle, then go after the Skywest pilots for a 5-10% cut after the union drive fails.