ASA closer to a strike

[JoeMerchant]

surely you realize that mainline pilots/alpa have NO INTENTION WHATSOEVER of flying a 90 seat plane....right? Please tell me you know that. If not, I'll lose a great deal of respect for you. That rate, IMO, is just ANOTHER slap at us regional 2nd class folks by ALPA National. It's another example of why we regional 2nd class folks should do whatever it takes to get ALPA OUT of our lives and something in place (if we must have something at all) that WILL work with OUR interests at heart. ALPA ONLY WANTS OUR MONEY. ESPECIALLY NOW SINCE ALL THE MAJORS HAVE TAKEN HUGE PAYCUTS!!!!! Duane and his buddies up there have boats/cars/mortgages/ex-wives&girlfriends to pay for.

I agree with everything you said except the part about mainline pilots having no intention whatsoever of flying a 90 seat plane. They are recalling mainline USAir pilots into the E190, which is going to be flown at mainline, for rates lower than our current 70 seat rate. At NWA, they will be recalling mainline pilots to fly 70 and 90 seaters at Compass which will be part of the mainline contract, but a separate certificate.

 

[ohplease!]

I can't believe I'm agreeing with you.... but you're 100% correct.

Now having said that, I don't think our pilots are interested in settling on a 70 seat pay cut, screwing of the IPs, and PBS. I know I personally have no interest in the first and last. You may say the MEC failed to effectively instill realistic expectations in our pilots minds, and you'd be right. But where we are now, a majority of our pilots are so whipped up and pissed that they want an industry leading contract. And the MEC is saying they need to do what the majority wants. It is beginning to seem like a graveyard spiral isn't it?

I've said before that I think this company is going to be downsized no matter what we do. I think we should preserve our 70 rate plus COL, get Skywest 50 plus COL, drop the b fund retirement (but go for enhanced 401k) and put the IPs on the skywest system. That I would vote in tomorrow. But the company hasn't even come close to offering it, and yes, the MEC leadership is refusing to recognize that Comair+ is not a good target.

the last compnay offer did not ask for a 70 pay cut, it was current rate (not enough but, trade off something rediculous for a little more $ and rigs).

PBS is a forgone conclusion, according to almost everyone including the CNC and MEC (trade off something rediculous for some control over what PBS system we get).

I don't want the IPs "screwed" either but, maybe they could be a good bit more efficient in how they run the training dept. SkyW IPs seem to do better financially than ours (quite a bit from what I hear) and I don't see/hear about them dropping over from stress from too much work. We have some really great IPs, I think they can handle the added pressure.

 

[atrdriver]

thats the dumbest, most self serving statement I've heard in a very long time. It ranks right up there with "this is MY airplane, you're just an FO".

If you don't see that then you aren't out flying the line on a daily basis. The pilots are what is keeping this place together. Yes every employee group is valuable, but we are the ones that keep it running as well as it does. I for one am sick of this management "team" treating us like we are the enemy.

 

[atrdriver]

I don't want the IPs "screwed" either but, maybe they could be a good bit more efficient in how they run the training dept. SkyW IPs seem to do better financially than ours (quite a bit from what I hear) and I don't see/hear about them dropping over from stress from too much work. We have some really great IPs, I think they can handle the added pressure.

The inefficencies in the training department have been caused by the company, not by the IPs. It was not their idea to split into training and standards, it was the companies.

 

[ohplease!]

If you don't see that then you aren't out flying the line on a daily basis. The pilots are what is keeping this place together. Yes every employee group is valuable, but we are the ones that keep it running as well as it does. I for one am sick of this management "team" treating us like we are the enemy.

ok, tell ya' what, go out tomorrow (or the day of your choice) and complete a trip without: dispatcher, fueler, catering, cleaning, gate agent, ramp tower, flight coordinator, scheduling, lav service, baggage handlers, tug driver, wing walker, mechanic, ummm I feel like I'm missing someone,,,,,oh yeah, a flight attendant, chief pilot (maybe we could get away with that one), Linda OR Mary Jane,,,,,ummm Probably still not getting someone in there....point is, we don't move an inch or keep ANYTHING together without the rest of them. So stuff that ego right back there where your head is and give the rest of them the credit they DESERVE.

 

[ASApuppy]

I too have called my status rep and we seem to be on the same page. I think what we need to shoot for is that Zoltar package for our open issues. That would be keeping out 70 rates (although we need COLA), a raise on their 50 rates. As for retirement, I'm not in favor of a B-fund. I would rather see a pilot only 401k (so we don't see checks coming back to us for over-contributing) with company match on each check and add a Roth option. This kind of stuff should not have to be in the friggen contract. It should be company policy. Also, performance based incentives do not belong in the contract. And any bonus that is different from my peer at Skywest is wholly unacceptable.

The IP's is big difference from what I can tell. As I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, but Skywest only has about 30 instructors. Many of them work voluntary overtime. I was told that the top money maker is in the $250k area, but only has about 3 days off each month. We have about 100 IP's. They don't make that much, nor do they work those kind of hours. There are no double sims for an IP at ASA. I can't speak for them as to whether they think thats favorable for them. We have some instructors that are there for the money and some that are there because they enjoy the job. Any IP's here, either side, want to speak up?

However, all this is just pissing in the wind if we can't legally keep the flying. If they want PBS in 18 months, tell them they can have it the day after the master seniority list for Skywest Inc. is created. You have to give them incentive you know.

 

[ohplease!]

The inefficencies in the training department have been caused by the company, not by the IPs. It was not their idea to split into training and standards, it was the companies.

I didn't say who caused the problems, just that they may need to be fixed....I've had plenty of "its their game and ball, I'll just play by their rules" times too. That doesn't make it right or fix the problem.

 

[ohplease!]

I too have called my status rep and we seem to be on the same page. I think what we need to shoot for is that Zoltar package for our open issues. That would be keeping out 70 rates (although we need COLA), a raise on their 50 rates. As for retirement, I'm not in favor of a B-fund. I would rather see a pilot only 401k (so we don't see checks coming back to us for over-contributing) with company match on each check and add a Roth option. This kind of stuff should not have to be in the friggen contract. It should be company policy. Also, performance based incentives do not belong in the contract. And any bonus that is different from my peer at Skywest is wholly unacceptable.

The IP's is big difference from what I can tell. As I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, but Skywest only has about 30 instructors. Many of them work voluntary overtime. I was told that the top money maker is in the $250k area, but only has about 3 days off each month. We have about 100 IP's. They don't make that much, nor do they work those kind of hours. There are no double sims for an IP at ASA. I can't speak for them as to whether they think thats favorable for them. We have some instructors that are there for the money and some that are there because they enjoy the job. Any IP's here, either side, want to speak up?

However, all this is just pissing in the wind if we can't legally keep the flying. If they want PBS in 18 months, tell them they can have it the day after the master seniority list for Skywest Inc. is created. You have to give them incentive you know.

bravo, pretty well said.

 

[CFIT]

I was told that the top money maker is in the $250k area, but only has about 3 days off each month. We have about 100 IP's. They don't make that much, nor do they work those kind of hours./quote]

Close, a little low. You guys don't have a clue.

 

[737 Pylt]

ok, tell ya' what, go out tomorrow (or the day of your choice) and complete a trip without: dispatcher, fueler, catering, cleaning, gate agent, ramp tower, flight coordinator, scheduling, lav service, baggage handlers, tug driver, wing walker, mechanic, ummm I feel like I'm missing someone,,,,,oh yeah, a flight attendant, chief pilot (maybe we could get away with that one), Linda OR Mary Jane,,,,,ummm Probably still not getting someone in there....point is, we don't move an inch or keep ANYTHING together without the rest of them. So stuff that ego right back there where your head is and give the rest of them the credit they DESERVE.

Spoken like a true "management TOOL!"
I bet your knee pads with managements' name on it is even in your flight kit!