ASA: Are the new planes really coming?

[FL990]

If you look at the latest prelim award, a couple of things really stand out to me. First, when the move from DFW to ATL is complete, there will be way more CRJ 200 FO's than captains (31 to be exact). The second thing that stands out is that there are no posted vacancies for captain on any of the jets, which tells me that they aren't planning to balance the numbers out just yet. I have been told that they are doing another class the first part of December which will have 16 people in it and there is rumor that they will have another class starting on the 26th of Dec., then 20 per month after that....so the question is this....WHEN IN THE HECK ARE THEY GOING TO START UPGRADING PEOPLE?!

If these 25 airplanes are still coming next year, when are they going to start upgrading captains to prepare for them? Also, does anyone know when we are supposed to take delivery of the first plane? Because as it stands right now, they are saying around 390 CRJ 200 lines as of Feb 1st. There will be 495 FO's and 464 Captains......Thats a lot of frikin people on reserve and if we don't get those planes, I feel sorry for the bottom 50 or so people because they could be furloughed....anybody got any news??

 

[Ted Striker]

I am cautiously optimistic about the new airplanes. I would not be surprised if they are used as negotiating leverage against us. I would also think that DCI will try and convert them (at least some) into 700s, as that is what Skp has said he would like to do if they ever got relief from the scope. HOWEVER, I have already heard about the additional 700s being put out to bid, something like the past RFP. I concur about the bottom guys being nervous. Until those planes show up and our contract is done, I wouldn't be doing any long term planning if I were near the bottom here at ASA. There is nothing stopping them from taking our planes and writing "Comair" or whoever else on the side. Could get interesting....

 

[bailout]

You guys spend way too much time worrying.
All the planes are coming, we will all be captains in a few months, AND we will get scope relief and more 70s.

Seriously...

 

[WWEfan]

Hmmmm....Let me look into my crystal ball. **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, its cloudy. Here's my opinion anyway. I see the majority of the 25 RFP phantom jets being converted to 70's. Maybe some go to SLC and some to ATL. I don't see ASA trying to use them as leverage due to the fact that they have already publicly stated we were getting them due to the RFP. To go against their word would not be unprecendented, but it would certainly cause one hell of an uprising in a pilot group that is already at the breaking point.

I do think someone else may be brought in to fly some 70's since the newly relaxed scope allows for an "immediate" growth of 25. Neither ASA or Comair can get their hands on that many so quickly so we may see some flying farmed out to those that can implement those jets right away. Skypest, Sh;tauqua and Mesa (the word Mesa is an insult unto itself without me altering it) would certainly be leading candidates.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

I am cautiously optimistic about the new airplanes. I would not be surprised if they are used as negotiating leverage against us. I would also think that DCI will try and convert them (at least some) into 700s, as that is what Skp has said he would like to do if they ever got relief from the scope. HOWEVER, I have already heard about the additional 700s being put out to bid, something like the past RFP. I concur about the bottom guys being nervous. Until those planes show up and our contract is done, I wouldn't be doing any long term planning if I were near the bottom here at ASA. There is nothing stopping them from taking our planes and writing "Comair" or whoever else on the side. Could get interesting....

I think there's just about a zero percent chance of them having "Comair" written on the side of them. You guys are "being bad" for not agreeing to managements' whims in contract negotiations and we're "being bad" for not agreeing to concessions. You're right...could get interesting.

 

[WWEfan]

Its not Comair we are worried about. Its the bottom feeders....you know who you are.

 

[Ganja60Heavy]

I Be Wee Soda

....or....

I BI WI SIOTR


believe it when I see it on the ramp.

 

[jetstream]

..so the question is this....WHEN IN THE HECK ARE THEY GOING TO START UPGRADING PEOPLE?!


People are upgrading as we speak. I know one person who just finished Captain OE and one who just started their upgrade class.

 

[FL990]

..so the question is this....WHEN IN THE HECK ARE THEY GOING TO START UPGRADING PEOPLE?!


People are upgrading as we speak. I know one person who just finished Captain OE and one who just started their upgrade class.

Yes, this is true...but, most of the people upgrading right now are filling the 70 slots for SLC...or at least that is what the last class schedule showed....The point I was making with the question is that they are not upgrading any where near at the rate they are hiring...If they are hiring 20 per month which is what they have been doing since March and plan to continue this through Dec of next year, they need to be upgrading 10 per month to keep up...they have not been, nor do have they shown intention of doing so.

My big question is...does anyone know when we are supposed to start taking delivery of the 1st 50 seater?

 

[Smacktard]

Don't ya think the 'furlough' talk is a little premature? I assume you were here when the 120's went away, did you throw out a post to the same affect back then?

On a different note, I had a captain tell me the orders were changed over to 70 seaters weeks ago. Not sure how reliable that is, I would have thought something in the aviation news world would have reported that, or at least ASA would have put something out to that affect. But like others say, until the planes are on the ramp in our colors, they ain't here.

 

[601Pilot]

Don't ya think the 'furlough' talk is a little premature? I assume you were here when the 120's went away, did you throw out a post to the same affect back then?

On a different note, I had a captain tell me the orders were changed over to 70
seaters weeks ago. Not sure how reliable that is, I would have thought something in the aviation news world would have reported that, or at least ASA
would have put something out to that affect. But like others say, until the
planes are on the ramp in our colors, they ain't here.

From another rumor mill, I heard some of the 50s were changed to 70s, but
since delivery of the 50s are slated to begin in January 2005, a few 50s are
already going thru the production line and we'll have to take delivery of those.
The remaining a/c will be converted to 70s. This rumor makes the most sense
to me, but ASA has never made sense before so I doubt it will start with this!

I would assume the 2 aircraft/month starting in Jan is still on schedule unless
they fly sideways like the last few 70s!

As far as upgrades go, I think the company is just waiting to see how the
whole shake up with DFW and SLC pans out before they start sending tons of
people into training. We have been fat on captains for a while, so it will take a
little time to balance out. I would assume you'll see some big openings in the
left seat in the spring. Unfortunately, I still don't think you'll see upgrades drop
below the 4 year seniority level.

My $.02

 

[Airboss]

Delivery Schedule

I am wondering, has there ever been a published delivery schedule for these 25 new airplanes?

I think most are assuming 2 planes per month.

What if they delayed the delivery and made it 3 per month starting april?? Then maybe it could be all 70's.

Wasn't US Air's order cancelled? So who gets dibbs on those?

 

[bailout]

Why would you want to convert the 50s to 70s? We already have 25 50s coming, so if the scope gets relaxed, lets get our 50s AND more 70s. This way we get MORE airplanes.. Use your heads people!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Rumors going around the Flight Safety Taj Mahal is that the training department is getting swamped. They are being asked to train 40 pilots at month ( CA and FO ) but have been hurt by attrition. ASA IP's seem to have guaranteed interviews at most majors and a few have been leaving looking for more secure employment and opportunities for professional growth.

It seems that every year about now ( NOV / DEC ) they slow down on the bid awards since many of the IP's and support staff take their vacations around the holidays and it is difficult to schedule the available resources.

My understanding is that ASA may defer some aircraft until the training backlog is reduced.

I have also heard rumors that CHQ was well in the running for some DCI E170 operations and that any announcement to change ASA's -200 order to -700's would have to wait until late January 05.

If any of you have friends with 121, or 135, time I keep hearing that ASA is looking for qualified applicants to interview.

Who knows - these are just the latest rumors.

 

[twobits]

so, if chq gets the planes, are the passengers going to have to jump out of the planes at the stations without jetbridges??? I doubt DCI would complicate things like they have with having RJ's with 40 and 50 seats. This leads to less operational flexibility.... yeah, yeah, I know they could put stairs at outstations but that would not happen until somebody gets hurt jumping in or out of the plane.

 

[blzr]

ASA IP's seem to have guaranteed interviews at most majors

Really?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Really?

Airtran sure seems to like them. I would think most airlines like to see Line Check Airman, or Aircrew Designated Examiner, on a resume. If given the opportunity to get those credentials, I'd probably jump on it.

 

[~~~^~~~]

so, if chq gets the planes, are the passengers going to have to jump out of the planes at the stations without jetbridges??? I doubt DCI would complicate things like they have with having RJ's with 40 and 50 seats. This leads to less operational flexibility.... yeah, yeah, I know they could put stairs at outstations but that would not happen until somebody gets hurt jumping in or out of the plane.

They use stairs at VPS for the MD88's.

 

[twobits]

they also use stairs for the 757 in san jose, california. The point is that many airports that the 70 seat plane would be flying into have no jetbridges available for "RJ's".... i.e. LGA, JFK, CVG, ATL, DCA, SLC, AGS, MYR, RDU, MCO, .... etc.... That does not mean that this is a desireable, but it is a point in the CRJ 70's favor. would you rather have an airplane that can fly into any airport that Delta serves and not need a jetbridge or "stairs" or have one that does not need these accesories, but is able to use a jetbridge if available.

Fred Butrell is saying that having a 40 seat and 50 seat version of the RJ is undesireable due to flexibility of the fleet, why would he create another problem by introducing the EMB 170. At some point, he has to realize that Delta wants DCI to do a lot of flying and it is best for ASA and Comair to do this flying. It is more important to do this flying now than to slowly act to increase the WO's flying. If he p1sses around trying to get concessions but loses the big picture of flying planes to make money for Delta, he will lose his job.

 

[bailout]

The article stated that republic has an edge to get the scope relaxed flying because they already fly 70 seaters. (as in CRJs, not EMBs)
And the ASA IPs do indeed have an open invite at AT. Dont know about other carriers.