ASA and Greencards

[AceCrackshot]

While I sympathize with the hoops a green card holder has to jump through to get a job in the US, the green card pilots have yet to answer a single question...if trained and capable Americans are out of work in a certain field, then why isn't it the right of the host country to restrict employment in that field?

Our Immigration policy is so fcuked it can't take a bus to fcuked. Additionally, I have no quarrel with the individual pilot/nurse/computer programmer who swings a green card to work in Los Estados Unidos.

I do not however, repeat, don't like people to piss on me and tell me it's raining. Our immigration situation is divorced from foreign content of imported goods, our Treasury debt or any of the other thousand red herrings that have entered this thread.

It's about the fundamental unfairness to the American taxpayer who played by the rules and finds himself unemployed while the .gov says its ok to have a foreigner come and take a job.

 

[1013dot25hPa]

the green card pilots have yet to answer a single question...if trained and capable Americans are out of work in a certain field, then why isn't it the right of the host country to restrict employment in that field?

Because there are more the plenty flying jobs out there. Just have a look at all the different pilot job employment boards out there both online and printed. Granted, a lot of these aren't good flying jobs, but that is just the way this industry is.

But fact is, if you are not picky, you can get a flying job. people that complain that they can't get a job, need to take a good hard look at them selves as to why that is.

Again, illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be addressed immediately. But do you guy's know how few legal immigrants make up our total population? Get over it. It's nearly nothing!

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Dear sir,

You raised some valid questions. Let me (try to) answer them one by one.

While I sympathize with the hoops a green card holder has to jump through to get a job in the US

Well thank you sir. 3 years down, 3 to go. Then 3 more to citizenship.

if trained and capable Americans are out of work in a certain field, then why isn't it the right of the host country to restrict employment in that field?

It sure is and should be the right of this country to restrict employment in that field! Therefore, right now, there is NOW WAY on earth ANY 121 carier would even consider sponsoring a foreigner for his green card or temporary work permit (H-1) as a pilot. On top of that, how many furloughed pilots are willing to take that sh*ty 135 job anyway?

Our Immigration policy is so fcuked it can't take a bus to fcuked. Additionally, I have no quarrel with the individual pilot/nurse/computer programmer who swings a green card to work in Los Estados Unidos.

“swings a green card” If only you would know my friend. www.ins.gov start reading

It's about the fundamental unfairness to the American taxpayer who played by the rules and finds himself unemployed while the .gov says its ok to have a foreigner come and take a job

Sir, you do not seem like a stupid person to me, so please start reading into the subject before you start talking about it. It is simply NOT possible for a foreigner (legally) to come over and get a job that requires skill (ie: commercial pilots, dokters etc etc ) if there are unemployed US citizens sitting at home waiting at home for those jobs to take.

Getting a temporary work permit (H-1) requires AT LEAST a 4 year degree + additional skills. After obtaining your H-1 you are only allowed to work for your sponsor for a period of 3 years. You pay tax into the SS system, without being eligible to benefit from anything. (Unlike our friends from Mexico who jump over the border without any education only to receive free schooling and medical care in the US… Only to end up b*tching about this country and its citizens -- in spanish!.. )

After 3 years you are allowed to start the Green Card procedure which is a 3 phases procedure thing…. Phase 1 one being a authorization from the department of labor. Guess what… Yo won’t make it thru that phase if there are US citizens for that job. In general it takes up to 3 years (which brings the total to six) for western Europeans to get their Green Card interview… 7/8 years for people from further east most of the time. After that it’s another 3 years to obtain your citizenship. Total cost for me (after 3 years) is 15.000 USD in legal fees. I am paying tax, learning the language, without any bitching or complaining since it was my own choice to come over here and play the game by it’s rules.

Let me know if you have any more question, I would be more then happy to (try to ) answer them for you, or give you my lawyers phone # who would be more then happy to explain a few things about immigration policies to you.

I also would like to add that I find it amazing how many ignorant and uneducated people walk around here. Do yourself a favor and start talking to (American) pilots at Cathay Pacific, Dragon air, KLM, BA, Emirates, Nippon Air Cargo etc etc etc. Then again, you won't meet them at Lincoln reg airport I guess...

Being a commercial pilot, one would think you would have somewhat more of a "worldly" (if you will) view and perspective on things.

If you are lucky I will give up the endless fight with the INS in a year or so and go back to the old country to get a flying job at Netjets, KLM, Ryanair or British Airways where I will be (and more then happy to) flying with many (skilled) Americans.


I will however steel one of your US women and bring her with me to Europe. But for whatsoever strange reason a lot of women over here want to go over to Europe as bad as I want to stay here. Oh well, grass is always greener on the other side of the fence I guess!

PS: Do you fly for COEX? one of my best (american ) friends over there would be more then willing to talk to you about all the sh*t I had to go thru for the last 3 years with at least another 4 years to go.

So along the lines of America first would you also suggest that foreigners not buy OUR products after all what’s good for the goose is good for the gander, non?

I wonder how successful the co. that manufactured the 727 that you fly would prevail if foreigners took a page out of your book or Microsoft or GE or ...oh never mind

Remember we were instrumental in winning facism (WW1, WW2) communism (the Cold War) authoritarianism (Panama, Haiti, The Balkans, Grenada, etc) and eventually we will beat Jihadism (this one will take time – perhaps generations – but the result will be to our benefit)

What does ...ism mean? Its an idea and the only one that works is capitalism
Why because the premise of other systems are fundamentally flawed – and in the long run they are doomed to failure

China and India are embracing the free markets in good ole’ American fashion and look at the results...why? Because the premise of their old systems are fundamentally flawed...are you getting it yet? Its called globalization

How does that relate to greencards?

The one area where this country is unassailable is our economic model. The US accounts for (roughly) 5% of the worlds population but 20% of the worlds GDP...BTW China is roughly the inverse.

If we close our borders how will we spread this message? Who will fill the ranks of our graduate schools along with Americans? How will we create an environment where our wares will be purchased overseas if we become isolationist.

My friend ...
May I remind you that here in the US the unemployment rate is around 5%. If you have ever studied any basic economics you would know that that is considered virtual employment due to transience and the fact that some people will not get up and go to work out of choice i.e some Americans...cue the ambitious immigrant who will work hard, procreate and instill that ethic in his or her AMERICAN offspring making this country better off (higher tax revenues...Sherlock).


Do us all a favor will you...get a clue and while you are at it go pick up a book and read about isolationism and how it works... need a hint on where to start. Pyongyang.

Respectfully,

Great post my friend.

Ace and Piper, back to you guys..... (can't wait)

Yours,
FD

 

[ex j-41]

While I sympathize with the hoops a green card holder has to jump through to get a job in the US, the green card pilots have yet to answer a single question...if trained and capable Americans are out of work in a certain field, then why isn't it the right of the host country to restrict employment in that field?

Our Immigration policy is so fcuked it can't take a bus to fcuked. Additionally, I have no quarrel with the individual pilot/nurse/computer programmer who swings a green card to work in Los Estados Unidos.

I do not however, repeat, don't like people to piss on me and tell me it's raining. Our immigration situation is divorced from foreign content of imported goods, our Treasury debt or any of the other thousand red herrings that have entered this thread.

It's about the fundamental unfairness to the American taxpayer who played by the rules and finds himself unemployed while the .gov says its ok to have a foreigner come and take a job.

Go back to watching FOX news...

 

[32LT10]

Please come to the US to work! I need some more people to make fun of on the radio!

rojer!

So true. Half the guys I hear on the RJ aircraft sound as if they are speaking from an Afghan ESL booklet.

 

[fareview]

While I sympathize with the hoops a green card holder has to jump through to get a job in the US, the green card pilots have yet to answer a single question...if trained and capable Americans are out of work in a certain field, then why isn't it the right of the host country to restrict employment in that field?

Our Immigration policy is so fcuked it can't take a bus to fcuked. Additionally, I have no quarrel with the individual pilot/nurse/computer programmer who swings a green card to work in Los Estados Unidos.

I do not however, repeat, don't like people to piss on me and tell me it's raining. Our immigration situation is divorced from foreign content of imported goods, our Treasury debt or any of the other thousand red herrings that have entered this thread.

It's about the fundamental unfairness to the American taxpayer who played by the rules and finds himself unemployed while the .gov says its ok to have a foreigner come and take a job.

To add to FD's list of airlines where Americans have been or are working:

EVA, JAL, Air Japan, Gulf Air, Qatar, Korean Air, China Airlines, Etihad, Jade, SIACargo...

 

[Flyingdutchman]

SIA mainline, Easyjet, Ryanair (DEC 737), Qantas, Air NZ....

Oh well, enough of this cr*p for this guy. Im gonna get me some beers!

Later.

 

[32LT10]

SIA mainline, Easyjet, Ryanair (DEC 737), Qantas, Air NZ....

Oh well, enough of this cr*p for this guy. Im gonna get me some beers!

Later.

How many American pilots does British Airways, Air Canada, Virgin Atlantic, Lufthansa, Alitalia, KLM and various other top tier carriers employee? How many flight schools in the UK are hosting American pilots learning to fly?

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Are you just stupid or am I just smart?

Have you seen gas prices lately?? Or what it costs to pay for your JAA licenses compared to your FAA tickets? Why would any American want to go to flight training in the UK?

Great question there buddy.....

 

[jayme]

Are you just stupid or am I just smart?

Have you seen gas prices lately?? Or what it costs to pay for your JAA licenses compared to your FAA tickets? Why would any American want to go to flight training in the UK?

Great question there buddy.....

You crack me up man.

 

[federico]

Come on pipejockey and beech boy say someting or does your kkk aviation assoc forbid it,

 

[32LT10]

Are you just stupid or am I just smart?

Have you seen gas prices lately?? Or what it costs to pay for your JAA licenses compared to your FAA tickets? Why would any American want to go to flight training in the UK?

Great question there buddy.....

No I am not. Just pointing out that all you guys come over here looking for the promised land because you are too cheap to pay for it in your own portion of the world. You come here, get your license cheaper than at home and try to compete in our y-o-b market. You don't see it the other way around becasue to work for Ryanair, Easyjet and various other you mentioned an American not only needs JAA license but also a right to work visa. Most of those are very stringent and yet the same standard is not applied to Oly from sfeeeeden when he turns up on the doorstep of some carrier in the US.

 

[1013dot25hPa]

What does this mean?

Posted by 32LT10: y-o-b market

Did you mean job market?

Posted by 32LT10: You don't see it the other way around becasue to work for Ryanair, Easyjet and various other you mentioned an American not only needs JAA license but also a right to work visa. Most of those are very stringent and yet the same standard is not applied to Oly from sfeeeeden when he turns up on the doorstep of some carrier in the US.

Are you just a little hard headed or just plain stupid? It works the same way the other way around! Do you really believe that "Oly from Sfeeeeden" can just come over and work for any US carrier without holding a valid FAA License and a US work visa? Off-course that's not the case. You need to re-read your FAR/AIM buddy and then read up on immigration policies and procedures. For legal immigrants, US immigration policies and procedures are just as stringent if not more so than the EU's.

Just like an American desiring to work for one of the carriers you mentioned above needs to obtain a JAA License and a work visa, Europeans and others desiring to work for a US carrier, need to obtain a FAA License and a US work visa.

What's the difference man! Did I miss something?

 

[32LT10]

What's the difference man! Did I miss something?

The US's policy is much more liberal in giving visas to fur'ners than the EU or the Aussies. The road is paved here for u-s-e-s guys.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

dude, you got no clue haha thanks for the good laugh.. im out.

FD

 

[fareview]

No I am not. Just pointing out that all you guys come over here looking for the promised land because you are too cheap to pay for it in your own portion of the world. You come here, get your license cheaper than at home and try to compete in our y-o-b market. You don't see it the other way around becasue to work for Ryanair, Easyjet and various other you mentioned an American not only needs JAA license but also a right to work visa. Most of those are very stringent and yet the same standard is not applied to Oly from sfeeeeden when he turns up on the doorstep of some carrier in the US.

You refer to immigrants as "...being too cheap to pay for it in your own portion of the world.."

This was a debate you were losing quite rapidly until this last post and now its really a case of the rest of us reading and sighing in pity.

Ok so let me think of some entities that are as American as apple pie..here we go:

The Office of the President of the united States

USMC

US Army

The Boeing Co.

Is the USMC "...too cheap...in their world"...because they selected a European helicopter to transport the President of the US of A

Is the US Army "too cheap...in their world..." because they just ordered hundreds of European Light Utility Helicopters.

Is Boeing "...too cheap...in their world..." because they have paid Japanese heavy industries to manufacture the composite for the 787. And paid EVA of Taiwan to convert their 747 to carry the components across the Pacific.

Obviously the above are a few basic (did'nt think you could handle a non-aviation) examples of what goes on by the billions day in and day out in the world.

FD is right this is just comedy at this stage.

Let me leave you with an honorable thought.

E Pluribus Unum.

Respectfully,

fareview

 

[AceCrackshot]

I don't think anyone is saying that Delta, or even Trans States could sponsor a pilot for a work visa. However, you guys are getting them though some route, correct? Edited to Add: Certain roads to citizenship are more difficult than others. I've heard of people being granted spousal green cards in a matter of months. Kudos to you sticking though a difficult system and utterly broken bureaucracy.

My personal issue with greencard pilots (vs. naturalized citizens) is that it is a easy, non-discrimitory way to start to limit the number of pilots in the US. The only way for pilot wages to return to a living level, especially in the 135 world, with any kind of structural stability is limit the number of pilots in the system.

Now personally, I'd love to see JAA level exams come to the United States. I can study and would probably pass them. Those exams in Europe do nothing for safety, but they are an excellent way to limit entrance into a profession. As a result, aviation is still an excellent job in most of the rest of the world. While we're at it, I'd like to see a much more rigourous medical exam (how about a height/weight proportionate section) and a 121 requirement for 3000 hrs. of turbine time for PIC of a 121 jet.

My issue isn't chauvanism. I'm married to the daughter of immigrants. They are Hollywood Central Casting Immigrants. Hardworking, dependable, patriotic. My issue is defending a profession while we still have one to defend.

 

[pipejockey]

Gee I am away for a few days and the insults just keep adding up. Just go over all these posts and see what side is throwing around the personal insults and name calling. Yes it's those pesky foreigners!!! They do not support anything this country try's to do abroad (except of course when my ancestors are spilling blood and dying overseas to bail their sorry asses out of WWI and WWII) but of course thats ancient history, what have you done for me lately I suppose.

So for all those pro immigration people, try looking at a population growth curve, it's an exponential curve. When do you suggest we close the borders? At a population of 500 mil? 1 billion? So when? Talk about foreign bigots, some of you here fit that profile to a tee. And yes it is possible for a foreigner to be a bigot, as hard as it is for some of you zealots to believe, and you all reek of the stench of bigotry.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Ace –

I knew you would have some brains. Thanks for your post. As far as lowering the bar… I made 4800 bucks a month as a BE-200 SIC (corp. P91 and charter 135) and 5800 as a PIC a month. Not bad for a 22 y/old. Please let me know what I can do to stop lowering the bar at the 135 level!

Piper –

If we would have closed the U.S. border to white Christian Europeans years and years ago, there would not have been a pipejockey at flightinfo right now. I promise you though (if that makes you feel any better) that I will move to Canada as soon as they elect hillary for president.

Ok, Ill be trying to stay out of this now, but it’s funny to see how the anti European division out here has 0% good points to make.

Gotta go, my 100% blond petit American girlfriend is waiting for her Euro bf to pick her up and buy dinner. The whole “going Dutch” theory doesn’t work in the new country I guess .

You guys have a great night.
FD.

 

[FlyingToIST]

Flyingdutchman,
please don't call Pipejockey "piper" it's a very bad insult to a great aircraft!

 

[Flyingdutchman]

Ace -

To problem is not immigrant pilots, the problem is pilots willing to work for nothing and/or pay for their training and type ratings. I made more $$ flying my (super ) king air 16 days a month then pipejockey flying his SJS CRJ 80 hours a month.

Also, you think that it is the fault of Americans flying for Emirates that they have sh*ty duty times right now and BS schedules and rest times ?

of course not, it's the result of a sh*ty market, and pilots in general willing to bent over for management way to easy.

Be safe.
FD

 

[FlyingToIST]

My personal issue with greencard pilots (vs. naturalized citizens) is that it is a easy, non-discrimitory way to start to limit the number of pilots in the US. The only way for pilot wages to return to a living level, especially in the 135 world, with any kind of structural stability is limit the number of pilots in the system.

My issue is defending a profession while we still have one to defend.

Well, guess what I am GC pilot and missed two class dates ebcause of the stupid TSA rule. Why? Because someone needed a window dressing measure to make sure 9/11 didn't happen again.. As a person who had a student visa, h1b visa and then green card i have been checked by any 3 letter agency more than a born American has been.. No, that wouldn't be enough..

To be honest with you I don't see why would you care if i was a citizen or a permanent resident. The issue is to right to live and work in USA. It's not like we are getting handed these GCs left and right.. What are the number of GC holder pilots? What are the # of pilots who are going into aviation by ERAUs, UNDs and ATPs with the potential of making money and meeting hot chicks..

Compared to Ch.11 declaring airlines that are getting wage concessions, giving more flying to regionals, sending more airplanes to Honduras for mx work, I'd say few hundered of us are doing nothing to take the industry down..

But then again, we are easy targets.. so start shooting..

 

[ReportCanoa]

What are the # of pilots who are going into aviation by ERAUs, UNDs and ATPs with the potential of making money and meeting hot chicks..

Less than zero.

 

[007]

Why should natural born citizens be given priority?
Hiring decision should be based on ability and merits.
That's why we have sim evaluation and knowledge test in interviews.

That's because he's a native american, just like everyone else on this board

 

[ReportCanoa]

Nothing wrong with immigrants, but learn how to speak English. And feel free to take advantage of the opportunities in your own country, like the airlines that are blacklisted/ banned by the European Union.

 

[pipejockey]

I made more $$ flying my (super ) king air 16 days a month then pipejockey flying his SJS CRJ 80 hours a month.

Why does everyone insist on calling me an rj pilot? Well most of the people in this thread are from abroad, maybe they need to brush up on their reading skills.

If we would have closed the U.S. border to white Christian Europeans years and years ago, there would not have been a pipejockey at flightinfo right now. I promise you though (if that makes you feel any better) that I will move to Canada as soon as they elect hillary for president.

Get real dude! When the country had far fewer people we needed those from abroad to come here and populate the country and make it what it once was, a great place to live your life and engage in ones pursuit of happiness. It still is the greatest place in the world, although a far cry from what it once was, due to the disasterous and liberal policies of our government over the past 50 years.

And based on your statement about that wretched witch, we may not be that different after all. Can't we all just get along:bawling:?

learn how to speak English. And feel free to take advantage of the opportunities in your own country, like the airlines that are blacklisted/ banned by the European Union.

This gentleman addresses the above problem with an eloquence I don't have, so check out this short clip.
http://www.thekidfrombrooklyn.com/video_disp.asp?videoid=1263

​

 

[Britpilot]

We should have the same rules here that other countries have.

We do.
I would suggest some research before you post.
As my dad used to say "engage brain before placing mouth in gear"

 

[Flyingdutchman]

And based on your statement about that wretched witch, we may not be that different after all. Can't we all just get along:bawling:

No doubt in my mind we can. Let me know when you get to my home town on a overnight, I'll be more then happy to buy you a few beers.

FD

 

[pipejockey]

No doubt in my mind we can. Let me know when you get to my home town on a overnight, I'll be more then happy to buy you a few beers.

FD

Why thank you!