ASA and Comair to merge

[sleepy]

Here is a story from todays Atlanta-Jackson Constitution:


Pilots union suggests merger of Delta's 2 regional units

By RUSSELL GRANTHAM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution


Pilots at Delta Air Lines' two regional carriers want the Atlanta airline to merge the subsidiaries to save money.

Atlantic Southeast Airlines' and Comair's two pilot unions propose to combine as well, a move that would boost their bargaining power with Delta.

Delta is seeking pay and other concessions from pilots at its mainline and Cincinnati-based Comair units, as well as a two-year pay freeze at Atlanta-based ASA, which is currently in contract talks.


Pilots at all three operations are represented by separate units of the Air Line Pilots Association. Delta bought ASA and Comair in 1999 and 2000, respectively, but operates them as separately managed subsidiaries.

"We believe that the ASA and Comair pilot groups should be merged and that our two airlines be consolidated," the two unions said in a joint letter to members.

The unions said combining the two carriers will allow Delta to eliminate "numerous ground and management positions" to become more efficient.

Delta's pilots are the highest-paid in the major airline industry, while Comair's and ASA's are among the highest-paid among regional airlines.

According to Air Inc., an Atlanta-based aviation career service, senior captains flying the biggest jets at Delta make about $275,000 a year, almost 50 percent higher than the industry average after recent cuts at other big airlines.

Senior pilots flying 70-seat jets, Comair's and ASA's largest aircraft, make more than $100,000.

The unions' proposals face significant barriers. Delta is likely to oppose the union's efforts to combine.

Meanwhile, relations among Delta's three pilot groups have sometimes been contentious.

Since Delta bought ASA and Comair, the two units have continued to grow rapidly, even as Delta plunged into the red after Sept. 11, 2001. To cut costs and reduce capacity, Delta shifted flights to the regional carriers' smaller jets while parking big jets and furloughing more than 1,000 mainline pilots.

After Comair pilots and flight attendants recently rejected Delta's request for concessions, Delta set a Monday deadline for its regional carriers to submit bids to win future aircraft, flights and jobs. Essentially, Delta's message was that more growth will depend on cost cuts.

In Monday's letter to members, Comair's and ASA's pilot unions said that merging the regional airlines and their unions will "limit Delta's future whipsawing efforts and provide us with a stronger voice with management."

Delta declined to comment on the unions' proposal.

But the executive in charge of Delta's regional carriers has said a merger of Comair and ASA would cost Delta.

In a recent interview, Fred Buttrell, president of Delta Connection, said redundant jobs at ASA and Comair have already been eliminated.

He said Delta has determined that it is more costly "to merge and try to integrate [union employees'] seniority lists" than to keep ASA and Comair separate.

This isn't the first time ASA and Comair pilots have tried to create a united front.

In 2000, ALPA's national leaders rejected ASA and Comair pilots' request to merge their seniority lists with the Delta mainline pilots' list, calling the request "premature."

The regionals' unions said the head of Delta's mainline pilots union, John Malone, supports their latest proposal, however.

Separately, a group of Comair and ASA pilots is also pursuing a lawsuit against ALPA, claiming it hasn't fairly represented the interests of pilots of small jets at regional carriers.

 

[jetflyer]

Maybe management is waiting to see if they can get the ASA and Comair pilots to pay for the merger with a long-term concessionary contract. It's possible.

I think you're right about this BUT I THINK THE CONTRACT WOULD NOT HAVE TO BE CONCESSIONARY.

ASA has said for a long, long time they will not accept anything but COMAIR + 1%.

What if they can get Comair/ASA to accept a COMBINED 8-10 YEAR contract that would ensure PILOT PAY would not get out of hand at their Delta Connection. This would keep them from having to worry about a strike from two powerful groups for a long time. THEY'D JUMP at this oppourtunity.

MAYBE Comair/ASA could get paid:

the AVERAGE of the TOP 3 PAID RJ OPERATORS + 5-10%, adjusted yearly.

Keeping it only the top 3 + 5-10% would make the pay much better than American Eagle's 12 year similar contract.

This PAY would probably be about what Comair gets paid now. Comair/ASA would stay at the top of the payscales, but Delta wouldn't care if this was the case as long as they knew things wouldn't get out of control for a while. NO MORE CVG SHUTDOWNS. If they could just dissipate their fears of a debilitating strike for the next 8-10 years they would JUMP AT THIS OPPORTUNITY.

Comair/ASA PILOTS wouldn't have it that bad with this either as long as they get to obtain or keep decent Trip/Duty rigs, benefits, Comair's retirement, ETC for the course of the contract.

A question for you guys:
Why would Delta not want to join ASA/Comair if they could get a long term contract out of ASA/Comair that kept them close to the top in pay but ensured no LABOR problems for a significant amount of time?

Don't bash me for these ideas. I just think it's the ONLY way it's going to happen. Anyone else have any other ideas on how to make this Comair/ASA merger happen? Just trying to get people to think.

Delta is going to have to have a reason to do it, otherwise it won't be done. They're VERY scared of what?? A STRIKE every 4 years from Comair/ASA.

ALLEVIATING THIS FEAR IS THE ONLY WAY TO GET THIS DONE.
We need to find a way to make management not afraid for a while or we're just WASTING OUR TIME.

Jet

 

[WWEfan]

I really don't see how having 2 presidents, 2 levels of VP's, 2 flight controls, 2 scheduling departments, 2 training departments, 2 GO's, 2 etc. is cheaper than having one of each.

Someone else mentioned this idea before and I find it the most believeable scenario. Ofcourse management will never agree with the union on merging the 2 airlines because they know that is what we want. Since they know we want it they are going to try and make us pay for it. I certainly did not expect them to say, "Wow! What a great idea! Why didn't we think of that?" If a merger ever happens it will be negotiated like anything else.

I'm currently on the side of the fence that believes a merger will happen. Our recent proposal to management has received attention from the press and shareholders are going to start asking management some of these questions. Nothing is gonna happen overnight, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed in the mean time.

 

[surplus1]

On the surface it is easy to say this won't fly. Conventional wisdom agrees with you. I also will agree to an extent ,except one has to wonder what is behind an obviously doomed attempt by the combined MEC's.....The downside to this has been discussed. What about the upside?

If you really have to wonder what is behind this, please adjust your thinking cap.

1. Delta has always had the ability to merge the ASA/CMR operation, or to create a single list between the groups without a merger of the corporations. It should be obvious that they do not wish to do this. Ref. Mr. Buttrel's confirmation of that.

2. A merger or integration of the ASA/CMR pilot groups might provide some advantages for the pilots, but would also expose Delta to the future risk of a job action twice the size of what they faced with CMR in 2001. What Delta might save from an integrated management structure, and concessions, at these two subsidiaries, would be lost overnight, ten fold, in the event of a future labor dispute. Remember, Delta itself has listed the cost of the CMR strike as a $700 million dollar loss, in a mere 90 days. Does anyone really expect them to risk a $1.4 billion dollar future loss? What "savings" or "concessions" could possibly balance that? It is not logical to assume that management would voluntarily expose itself to this potential.

3. Those items are more of the "downside". You asked about the upside. Personally, I don't see one, but let's see if we can look a little further at some of the possibilities.

a. The pilots would gain the "opportunity" to bid for additional domiciles. For this they would "pay" -- who knows what percentage of thier current compensation packages in the form of concessions. Would the pilots gain more than they would lose?

b. There would be an "opportunity" to gain control of all DCI flying, presumably by excluding the subcontractors that currently exist and the new one's that are currently "bidding" on some of this flying. Is this an attempt by the CMR and ASA MEC's to get the Scope that they were otherwise unable to achieve? Who will sign off on that Scope? Will it be Delta, Inc., or will it be the managements of two airlines that "don't have the authority", by their own admission?

Is that a realistic expectation? What would be the size of the "concessions" that could possibly give Delta an incentive to discontinue its contracts with the subcontractors? Without the "exclusion" of the subcontractors, what is the advantage (for the pilots of ASA and CMR) to be on one list? Would anything be different from the status quo? What difference does it make if Delta farms out the flying of CMR and ASA individually or jointly?

If the "high cost" of ASA and CMR is what makes Delta ask for bids from Mesa, doesn't it follow that ASA/CMR pilots would have to work for less than Mesa in order to out bid them? Are the pilots of ASA willing to do that for one extra domicile? Are CMR pilots willing to do that for two extra domiciles?How much is a chance to live in ATL, DFW, CVG worth?

c. As in any merger, the seniority of every pilot (except # 1) will be affected by integration. Assuming DOH seniority integration, exactly who will benefit/lose from this? Do the rank-and-file pilots actually know? Is the assumed benefit of the merger actually worth the seniority adjustments that would result? Will the pilots themselves have a voice in this decision (by voice I mean vote)?

d. In the process of integrating the separate contracts that would have to follow a merger ---- will CMR pilots get the ASA contract or will ASA pilots get the CMR contract? Will both get an "improved" contract? What would be the "benefit" to Delta if they both got a better contract? If major concessions have to be made to accomplish this, what is the true benefit to the pilots?

e. If there is no change in the subcontractor situation and the flying can still go to the lowest bidder, what is the true value of this proposed "merger" (for the pilots), and how do we measure that value? Since the ASA and CMR MEC's can't negotiate directly with Delta managment, and since ASA's Barnett says that ASA "doesn't have the authority", with whom will the newly
"merged" pilot group negotiate? Will it be with a new management that also "does not have the authority"? What is the benefit of that?

f. Is there ANY upside to this manuever? If so, for whom?

I think the answer is yes. I see the "proposal" as beneficial to two entities. The ALPA and the DMEC. That is exactly why both have "approved" it. There is a lesser benefit to the politicians on the two (ASA/CMR) MECs.

a. The focus of the pilot groups will be redirected from resistance to concessions to the pursuit of merger in exchange for concessions. This is advantageous to the "leaders" who are under intense pressure and to ALPA which certainly doesn't want to repeat at ASA what happened at Comair. The cost/benefit of a strike at ASA is negative for ALPA.

b. The Company, Delta, will say no to a merger. They will also say no to eliminating the subcontractors. I think the parties making and endorsing the "proposal" already assume this. The ASA President has already rejected it and the CMR President is likely to do the same. What will happen next?

c. The ASA and CMR MEC's will merge (not the airlines, not the seniority lists, just the MEC's). That will save money for ALPA. It will also diminish the power of what ALPA sees as the "militants" and reduce the "independence" of both pilot groups.

d. After a while, someone will come up with the bright idea of integrating the combined ASA/CMR MEC with the Delta MEC, (not the lists, just the MEC) following the plan that is already in place at Continental. It will of course be done in the name of "unity", just as it was at CAL/CALEX. That will save more money for ALPA, but much more importantly, it will transfer to the Delta MEC the power to make all decisions that affect the future of CMR and ASA pilots, and those pilots will have no independent voice in their future. That is what ALPA wants and it is what the DMEC wants, i.e., control of the CMR and ASA groups. This is their new way to get it and it now has a good chance of succeeding.

e. The "new and improved" joint MEC will then make decisions that resolve the issue of adequate representation for ASA and CMR pilots and ALPA will have solved its DFR problem. That's the objective; the hidden agenda.

It is interesting to note the following:

It can be argued that there is (was) substantial operational integration between the CAL/CALEX pilots (before the XJT IPO), yet ALPA made no effort to integrate the two or to form a "single list" between them. Instead (while quietly opposing "one list"), they created a "single MEC" with a metodology that ensures the XJT pilots will never have a deciding voice in their own affairs, but will be dominated politically by the CAL pilot group. It was clever and it worked. "One list" died, and the problem of control was resolved, in favor of CAL pilots and consistent with ALPA policies.

It can be argued that there is far less "operational integration" between ASA and CMR than there is between DAL and CMR or DAL and ASA. Nevertheless, ALPA now "supports" a merger between ASA/CMR and the DMEC "approves" it.

Both ALPA and the DMEC vigorously opposed the suggestion of seniority integration between DAL/CMR/ASA (and still do)declaring, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that there was "insufficient operational integration" to warrant a merger. Nevertheless the same two groups now support merger where there is less operational integration. Is there a double standard or is all this just my imagination?

Those of you that choose to ignore these events also choose to ignore the reality that there is in fact an "upside" to this political move ... and the beneficiaries are the ALPA and the DMEC, not ASA or CMR pilots.

Could I be wrong? You bet! I'll believe that I am as soon as Delta, Inc., accepts this proposal, agrees to merge ASA/CMR and agrees to discontinue subcontracting. I have no plans to hold my breath while I wait.

I am teased by the thought...well slightly ;-)

You are being "teased" allright. I just hope that everyone will wait for the smoke and mirrors to be cleared before rushing over the cliff in support of political shenanagins that do not at this time appear to be of any direct benefit to either ASA or CMR pilots.

We're going to need a lot more than luck. You've been warned.

 

[wms]

I think it would be difficult to persuade people who currently have negotiating leverage...

The one with the leverage right now is DALPA. ASA/CA MECs have no clout, but if Dalpa is in favor of the merger they can push for it. DAL/DCI protection is part of their counter-offer. DAL badly needs concessions from DALPA, and if that means a merger in exchange for money, then there'll be a merger. DALPA may push for this merger because it's probably the best way to get the 1060 back. If we want DALPA to support our plans, then I'm sure it'll include recalls.

ALPAs response after the last attempt was that a merger was premature. Now they'll just say the timing is right.

In spite of what FB says redundancy has not been eliminated. There is still OCC, Scheduling, the GOs etc. DAL knows one infrastructure is better and cheaper.

We all will give a little, but we'll ALL gain a lot more, and in the long run it'll be best for the company and all our careers.

 

[bailout]

Excellent post Surplus.
We may not like it, but its true. I cant see a merger happening either.
There was an article in USA Today or Dallas local (the one page was handed to me) that had a few statements from the new CEO at Delta. He basically said Delta pilots WILL take a 30% concession, not the 9% they have agreed to, and then we will work our way down the list to cut costs.

 

[General Lee]

So, we WILL take a 30% cut, huh? In 2007. There is no way we would agree to that, I don't care how NICE he is. Nope. They will wait for the new contract, two years to negotiate that one, and by that time our pay difference with AA and UA will narrow form where it is now (as they get raises), so we won't ever take that 30% cut. He is dreaming. If he wants any money now, he may---just may, get 15%--and a two year contract extension.

As far as the Comair/ASA merger, I think the Dalpa MEC would favor it, and there would be something in there for recalls---but at the bottom of the list.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DDpaysoff]

I think wms brings up some pretty good points. Obviously, it helps us at asa and cmr to have DAL mec on our side. If we can secure some of this growth we should take some of the 1060 that do not get recalled and at least give them the option of flying the rj until they do get recalled. I doubt many will come over, but it just doesn't seem right that new-hire pilots are getting hired to do DAL flying when furloughs are on the street. However, CMR and ASA are not the only problems for DAL furloughs, what is up w/ the open time flying at DAL? I am not pointing any fingers, but I heard a rumor there is a lot of flying still being picked up at DAL. Can anyone explain?
Anyway, there is no better time than now for all three pilot groups to show strong unity.

 

[spinproof]

There was an article in USA Today or Dallas local (the one page was handed to me) that had a few statements from the new CEO at Delta. He basically said Delta pilots WILL take a 30% concession, not the 9% they have agreed to, and then we will work our way down the list to cut costs.

Can't seem to find your reference in USA Today or Dallas Morning News...you sure it wasn't the Inquirer! Negotiating in the press is never wise and for someone that is just taking over from a guy who didn't have a clue about pilot unions,poor judgement.

I'd have to see to believe it !

 

[jetflyer]

This CONVERSATION IS A WASTE OF OUR TIME if we CAN'T ELIMINATE management's Fear of ONE GIANT UNION GROUP striking every 4-5 years. I know I'm starting to sound redundant but what a waste of time this conversation is unless we get rid of management's fears. I think this is the only way:

THE ULTIMATE SOLUTION:

1) KEEP ASA/COMAIR always at the TOP of the payscale.
AVERAGE of the top 3 REGIONALS PAY + 5-10%.
-THIS WOULD BE ADJUSTED YEARLY. If the average pay went down in a year, then ASA/COMAIR's pay would stay the same that year.

2) Give ASA/COMAIR good TRIP/DUTY rigs, cancellation pay, deadhead pay, and COMAIR's 401K and retirement contributions.

3) MAKE ALL DELTA CONNECTION FLYING done by ASA/COMAIR
The flying of ACA/Skywest/CHQ would be replaced slowly over 6 years.

4) ADD a FLOWTHROUGH with a NO FLOWBACK clause where ASA/COMAIR PILOTS go to the BOTTOM of the DELTA list if they WANT TO. A ton of the senior ASA/Comair guys don't want this unless they can be 767 captains right away with an integration. But you don't have to go to Delta if you don't want to. I'd go in a heartbeat and so would a lot of other pilots.

5) The combination of Comair/ASA would eliminate:
DUAL management's, CEOs and MANAGEMENT with their inflated pay, scheduling, ETC.

HOW would the pilots lose out on this??? Why would the DELTA management agree to this? IF THE FEAR OF a STRIKE every 4-5 years from this massive UNION group is eliminated.


SO TO MAKE IT HAPPEN:
You have to have a VERY LONG CONTRACT BUT MUCH IMPROVED LIKE AMERICAN EAGLE'S.

COMAIR/ASA wouldn't lose out though because all of the flying is done by COMAIR/ASA and if the pay is:

the average of the top 3 regional's pay + 5-10%
The pilots CAN NOT LOSE!!

Comair/ASA would lose their contract negotiations every 4-5 years, but would they need a negotiation every 4-5 years???? ESPECIALLY if all the flying was done by them and they're ensured to always have the BEST PAY??

Shoot make it a 30 year CONTRACT! Would Delta management accept it then! I guarantee they would! This would completely eliminate the FEAR that makes the Comair/ASA merger so scary to them and why it PROBABLY WON'T HAPPEN.

Jet

 

[~~~^~~~]

If you really have to wonder what is behind this, please adjust your thinking cap.We're going to need a lot more than luck. You've been warned.

Thank you for your excellent post. I think you are correct.

 

[General Lee]

Jetflyer,

To have a flow-up list, there would have to be a flowback list. But, I agree with your assessment about some of the Comair/ASA Capts thinking that they are entitled to be Delta 767 Capts right off the bat. That is true. A lot of them do not ever want to be an FO again, and they love running the ship.


I'll tell you what I think will happen here in the future if Dalpa and Delta don't come to a mutual agreement. I think they will get a new contract done by 2007, and in the mean time all of the senior guys will be flying a lot, to get there "best three years"--which is what the retirement is based off of. Then, if we get a huge cut in 2007, then there will be MASS reitirements. I am amazed that there weren't more last Sept 1st. I had read somewhere that we had over 1500 pilots over the age of 55. So, we eventually get a big paycut, guys will bail by the hundreds, and there will be new Capt slots open and the movement will be huge, and the paycuts won't hurt as much because the current MD-88 FOs will become 777 FOs, and any widebody FOs now will become junior Capts. Then the furloughs will be recalled, and hiring will resume again, but at 30% ( or whatever??) less pay. (still a raise for the regional guys)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Ace757]

General,
15% max! Its up to you guys to prevent the race down to minimum wage at the majors. Who does this new CEO think he
quote "He basically said Delta pilots WILL take a 30% concession, not the 9% they have agreed to" The guy hasnt even had his first day on the job yet.

 

[RJFlyer]

Jetflyer:

You've got some serious stars in your eyes:

1) KEEP ASA/COMAIR always at the TOP of the payscale.
AVERAGE of the top 3 REGIONALS PAY + 5-10%.
-THIS WOULD BE ADJUSTED YEARLY. If the average pay went down in a year, then ASA/COMAIR's pay would stay the same that year.

Why in the world would Delta agree to merge us, only to end up paying us significantly more than any other regional? They want concessions, not to guarantee we're the highest paid in the industry.

4) ADD a FLOWTHROUGH with a NO FLOWBACK clause where ASA/COMAIR PILOTS go to the BOTTOM of the DELTA list if they WANT TO.

Why would DALPA want to agree to this? There is absolutely no benefit to them at all, and remember that we need their help to get the lists merged.

Re-read the MECs' proposal, and you'll see what's being asked for and offered.

 

[jetflyer]

QUOTE: "Why in the world would Delta agree to merge us, only to end up paying us significantly more than any other regional? They want concessions, not to guarantee we're the highest paid in the industry."

Comair is already paid around 5% over the average of the next top 3 paid regionals. It's not unheard of.


Maybe 1-2 % over the average of the top 3 regionals pay is MORE REASONABLE. But this wouldn't ensure that Comair/ASA would be the best paid. So maybe this would be BETTER for management. OF COURSE.

Just an example! I'm not sure of ANY EXACT NUMBERS AT ALL:
JUST SAY FOR AN EXAMPLE second year F.O. pay at the NEXT top THREE REGIONAL AIRLINES:
1)35
2)34
3)33

5% better would be 35.70 so I bet Comair pilots would love this. Their 2nd year pay now is 35.75. ASA has been saying for a while they want Comair plus 1% so in this instance they'd be accepting less than they want in their next contract.

PROBABLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN will be settled on something like: 2% better than the top three

This would be 34.68/hour 2nd year pay. Less than Comair makes now, but management would love it I bet.



It would just keep COSTS IN LINE with the industry and save them strikes with a long term contract. It would be adjusted yearly. They would have KNOWN costs. Delta is OK with known costs. They pay their Flight attendants at Delta still close to industry leading wages to keep them happy. I think they'd be happy just to have a long term contract without LABOR issues.


OK so maybe the FLOWBACK would have to be talked about. You're right DALPA would want this. But to get Comair and ASA's groups to agree to one would be difficult. I bet one could be worked out though in exchange for all DELTA connection flying being done by Comair/ASA.

I was just giving an idea for a something that would make it possible. MAINLY the long term contract. The details would have to seriously be talked about.

I still think unless you alleviate DELTA MANAGEMENT's fears of a Giant union group's pull by a LONG TERM CONTRACT then it won't happen PERIOD.

I don't think it has to be that concessionary either. I think the average of the top 3 regionals plus 2% would be VERY EASY to obtain. In my example above that would be a little concession for Comair pilots but PROBABLY more for ASA pilots. Maybe Comair/ASA would be willing to agree to this for a flowthrough.

AS other regionals had yearly contractual increases the pay would go up as well. THIS would have to be worded very carefully to not become an AMERICAN EAGLE payscale. Anyone know how theirs is done??? It's something similar but very low pay as we all know.

So many possibilities, the more I think of this the more it sounds like it could become a possibility.

Nobody else thinks with the proper numbers something like this couldn't become a reality??

Jet

 

[jetflyer]

Re-read the MECs' proposal, and you'll see what's being asked for and offered. [/B]

UNLESS they offer in the FUTURE something like a long term contract Delta management will NOT AGREE TO IT. They've already said INDIRECTLY they have no reason to combine the groups because they are afraid of the PULL THE UNION would have every 5 years.

Make the next contract 10-15 or more years away with pay based on Average of the top 3 regionals +2% and adjusted yearly and I bet they'd be willing to talk.

If the Delta CEO can assure shareholders no strikes at his Delta Connection for 10-20 years he'd be a HERO.

Just for Comair/ASA's sake make sure it doesn't become an American Eagle contract. Make sure Comair/ASA gets all Delta connection flying. GREAT work rules. Great benefits, etc. FLOWTHROUGH possibly

I say give them a reason besides the savings through the combination of managements, payrolls, scheduling etc. So far this is all that Comair/ASA's MECs seem to have had to offer. For DELTA management this WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH.

This thing will DIE QUICKLY if other ideas aren't brought up. Anyone else have any other ideas??

Jet

 

[N813CA]

General Lee


Every wholly owned wanted a flow up before September 11 and you guys said heck no. So why should we want one now when you guys would take our job. Why should a guy that has been here for 10 years give up his job for a guy that has been at a mainline for 6 months? If you look at the industry most mainline guys quit at a regional because they can't handle 10 days off and only making $20,000 a year. So what the heck do you want?

 

[FurloughedAgain]

job#1 = Jobs

Flowbacks would only work with strong fences to protect the pilots already on our seniority list.

We're not going to condmn our junior pilots to furlough to benefit you.

I will fight until the ship sinks to ensure that this MEC protects every pilot equally from the most senior to the most junior.

ALPA Job#1 is JOBS.

 

[sleepy]

We have many junior pilots at ASA that would love to take a furlough to get on the DAL seniority list. They are 25 years old and making $30 $60K per year. They can afford to take a few years off from flying and can make the same or better money working at Starbuck's (probably get better benifits too). That is what really scares me when this carrot is dangled in front of our pilot group.

 

[wms]

4) ADD a FLOWTHROUGH with a NO FLOWBACK clause where ASA/COMAIR PILOTS go to the BOTTOM of the DELTA list if they WANT TO.

With one list, flow through/flow back would be moot. You move up or down as seniority allows. If you don't want right seat of the mainline, you just don't bid it.

The majority of our list is younger guys who would support a DCI merger/DAL staple. I don't have a current list but the percentage with less than 5 or 6 years is overwhelming. I agree we need to be assured there will be no "furlough swapping"(replacing DAL furloughs with DCI furloughs), but if a future down-turn required furloughs, it probably wouldn't affect current pilots.

The list option mentioned above was given to the ASA MEC not long ago...and shot down quickly.