ASA and Comair to merge

[vc10]

Continental currently owns 31% of ExpressJet. The original IPO sold 47%, proceeds to Continental were around half a billion dollars and had Continental not received this, it likely would have gone bankrupt in the past year. Significant? Your call.

Pinnacle was sold by the NW pension plan a week or two ago in an IPO. Northwest retains 11% for now.

 

[Richard]

Fred Buttrell's Opinion

From the Atlanta Journal Constipation:


Fred Buttrell comments on what he thinks about any such merger.



Q: You're running an operation that consists of two wholly owned airlines plus three independent carriers. Between all these units, it seems from the outside like there's a whole lot of overlap of routes, redundant management layers, etc. Is there? What are the advantages of having all these units?

A: Each of these carriers have the operational staff to operate on their own [commercial carrier] certificate. But in terms of network planning, revenue, inventory allocation -- basically everything that you see on the marketing side to distribute and sell tickets -- all of that is done at the Delta level. These carriers don't have any [corporate] staff.

We have done the analysis [and determined] it would be more cost-inefficient to merge and try to integrate [union employees'] seniority lists and all the disruption that could potentially create. ...

... In terms of the [route] overlap, absolutely. We're integrating schedules so that we can take advantage of as much [aircraft] utilization as we possibly can.



This ain't a done deal! Prepare for an ugly fight.

 

[Heavy Set]

If I were Buttrell, I would not want to deal with one large employee group that could destabilize the entire operation with a strike - I would pit the two groups against each other. So, I would not want to merge ASA and Comair. Of course, the introduction of bidding from Chataqua, Sky West and Mesa to the equation would change things I suppose.

A merger makes sense operationally, but not strategically from management's perspective... I wish you guys luck though...

 

[jarhead]

Of course Buttrell would not want a merger, for the very reason Heavy Set stated. But.....right now, Comair and ASA have some negotiating capital. Buttrell wants to open the current Comair contract for "discussions", and delay the negotiations on the ASA pilot contract for another couple of years. If he wants that bad enough, maybe he'll listen to the joint MEC resolution. Ya don't get anything for nothing with union groups in the airline industry. If he wants concessions, with no benefit to the pilot groups, they would/should just tell him "thanks, but no thanks". In other words, "take a hike"!

Anything the executives of an airline openly state to the public, is purely for public relations, and is a red herring to the unions. Utter B.S. Anything of substance will be decided upon behind closed doors with the union leadership, and with negotiations, and give and take, until both parties agree to something.....period.

 

[sleepy]

"If I were Buttrell, I would not want to deal with one large employee group that could destabilize the entire operation with a strike - I would pit the two groups against each other."

Hummm...........That sounds a lot like your pilot group. A combined ASA and Comair would be large enough that no U.S. President would ever allow us to strike. We would get the PEB, and that would give management a big advantage.

 

[jarhead]

Sleepy

Your speculation that a PEB would NEVER allow a strike, is not founded in reality. Northwest Airlines was released to strike just a couple years ago, and did just that for 15 days, and got a lot of what they wanted in a new contract. Size does not preclude being able to strike, and even a PEB is only good for sixty days.

 

[Bill Mostellar]

Atlantic Southeast-Jackson Airlines

Now that is funny!

And I'm a product of the Atlanta Public Education System...

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Unions can propose anything they wish. Management will throw it back in their face. I don't believe this will go anywhere...

 

[Krusty]

jarhead....

...a couple of years ago, that was CMR.
NWA, 1998!

 

[FlyComAirJets]

ASA and CMR pilots want to merge lists.

Management wants concessions.

The ASA pilots are in contract negotiations.

Management wants CMR pilots to renegotiate their contract.

It appears that each side has something that the other wants.

Sounds like a deal in the making .... it just comes down to how badly they want it.

 

[bailout]

>>Atlantic Southeast-Jackson Airlines<<


ROFL!!

 

[rjcap]

Fred Buttrell doesn't make the decisions.

The new Delta CEO will decide if he can get some workable concessions from this proposal.

What this does is make life very difficult for Skippy Barnette and his gang of do nothing senior managers. Either he proposes a workable contract for the ASA pilots to satisfy their desires or he loses his job with the merger of Comair and ASA.

Skip is backed into a no win situation here. Either choice and he loses.

the real issue is how this ties into the mainline pilot concession talks and ultimately that is decided by the new CEO and DALPA.

 

[jarhead]

Krusty

Oh yes, I am well aware of the exact time of the Comair 89 day long stike in the spring of 2001. The three year anniversary of the start of that action is coming up soon this coming March of 2004.

I did not realize it was that long ago that the NWA pilots were on the picket line (1998) for 15 days, but I fully accept your date on that. My point, however, was that the SIZE of an airline does not prevent a strike, PEB or no PEB of 60 days.....it can, and does happen.

 

[sleepy]

jarhead, it depends on who is President and who controls the Congress. It would make it harder for ASA-Jackson (too funny) to strike, but not impossible.

 

[wms]

DAL is the final authority on an ASA/CA merger. However, because we're owned by the same company, a seniority merger would be harder to resist. It could start with a seniority merger and go from there. The fact that there seems to be ALPA and DALPA support is a plus. Also, with DALPA's counter proposal including DAL/DCI protection, they may have some influence through their concessions negotiations. This would obviously include opportunity for the 1060.

For those who think a large pilot group means power, look at AE or Coex. But if mgmt/labor relations are good, a strong labor group can help immensely to make a strong airline.

 

[Heavy Set]

I am not a Delta employee. Sometimes the truth hurts - reducing negotiating leverage is not in Buttrell's best interest - that's all I am saying...

 

[~~~^~~~]

Even when ALPA acts like they might make some small effort to limit alter ego flying and act like a union they screw it up.

(1) While the merger resolution might be earnest at the LEC level, ALPA National and the Delta MEC would never allow Connection to grow under such a scheme. If ever Connection gets 1 vote more than the Delta MEC has the entire ALPA power structure would be destroyed and nothing means more to ALPA's power structure than their position.

(2) The merger is political spin speech designed to cover the fact that it has always been within ALPA's power to merge ASA, Comair and Delta under US labor law. ALPA voted that there was not "sufficient operation integration." Don't forget that at every turn - ALPA - has killed mergers on the Delta property. Management has never had the chance to kill something - ALPA struck it down first.

(3) ALPA thinks management is so entrenched against a merger that ALPA feels safe that this proposal is a "poison pill." Just like the "philosophical differences" that demanded everyone on the Delta property (even those underpaid by current industry averages) must take a pay cut before the Delta pilots would even negotiate.

(4) An ASA / Comair merger makes little difference. It reduces the number of DCI carriers by one during a year that Mesa is being invited to bid on 45 airplanes. Unless all Delta flying is done by Delta pilots and Delta's signature is on the contract, it is pretty much meaningless. From management's standpoint it makes little difference either. Delta has already cut out redundancies and runs the show from Virginia Avenue. Make no mistake about it, Comair and ASA are not airlines in their present form. ASA and Comair are simply names used to undermine employee's efforts to bargain collectively. As Delta admits, we have no ability to set routes, sell tickets, account for finances, etc... We are not airlines.

(5) And if ASA and Comair are so called independent airlines, why the heck do we need the consent of the Delta MEC Chairman? Doesn't this further illustrate the problems ALPA National has representing Comair and ASA pilots!!! In a proper representational structure ASA and Comair pilots would have standing to represent their interests without getting permission from the Delta pilots. Who else do we need "permission" from to get the representation guaranteed to us by ALPA's Constitution.

Welcome to "Deagle" your Song Connection. Whatever. Until ALPA represents ASA and Comair pilots this is meaningless hyperbole.

~~~^~~~

 

[Old Crow]

Though very important, DCI shouldn't make their complete business model based on "beating the organized labor". They cannot avoid the obvious expense that is required to maintain a portfolio.

AJC represents the public view. They seem to be tuned in to this just fine.

Yes, we will be big, etc., etc...
But don't overlook the positive potential.

 

[bailout]

Would this mean ASA would have to fly the "older" Comair RJs with the ugly worn out paint?

What about Flaps 8 for Comair ??


AHhhhhh, the agony........

 

[Krusty]

Thanks Jarhead, their was no bashing there...

I will say this to Bailout,
we can use Flaps 8, and the older jets are not necessarily the older paint schemes, have you ever heard of a "C" check, it takes an A/C's life 36 months to get weighed again, thus a new paint job.

I had a flight attendant ask me that, "Oh, I thought the older ones are the ones with the old paint jobs, d'ooo.

no biggy....

it is all small stuff.