Are you sure things aren't bad at NJ too?

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Today, 15:40 #57 jehtplane vbmenu_register("postmenu_1749297", true);
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex-ible
Of course any personnel change at NJ would be the largest - they are the biggest fractional by far.

As far as the relationship to the contract, I think you will find that FX's cost per pilot is about the same as NJ's. You will notice that these two companies are the only ones that haven't furloughed. Perhaps furloughs are based on company performance, not employee pay.


I would say it is based on aircraft utilization and growth. CS did not take delivery of airframes that we hired for, hence the furloughs, FLOPS is getting rid of airframes, hence the furloughs. I would not be throwing stones at CS or FlightOps. Right now Flex has the lowest aircraft utilization out of the Big 4. CS has the highest. I do not want to see anyone else on the street, but lets be realistic, utilization is WAY DOWN, Fractional sales are almost non-existent, Good luck to us all, EVERYONE is gonna feel some of this downturn before it is all said and done.
Last edited by jehtplane : Today at 15:47.

Just wondering where you get the information about utilization rates. I am not saying you are wrong. I am just curious.

 

[Trash8Mofo]

Tax cuts for the Rich save jobs.... so they can afford private jets.

you are funny!

The rich are flying less because:
1) The board don't want their CEOs to
2) It makes bad PR during recession
NOT because they ran outta money, they could careless about your tax cuts.

Concessions are bad policies. That's true. I would prefer to work fewer days for lesser pay to save jobs. Cutting hours, not cutting rates.

 

[clickclickboom]

hate to tell you but our tails end with QS and the other frac's blinked.

We aren't jetblue and the typical 121 economics don't apply to us.

I was referring to flops not NJA my point was in simpleton terms is that NJA is a strong company with solid complimentary infrastructure that should be a solid survivor.

Diesel I did the better part of a decade at a fractional, as well as pt 91, 135, set up three small flight departments and currently fly 121 I have almost been around the block once.

I have said for years that the fractional bubble would pop and the current economic situation is the catalyst. Things are going to get much worse before they get better unfortunately.

Keep in mind that in a hot growth market only nja and flex for a small period of time were profitable.

I have a good friend that is a regional manager for Signature and he said the sales numbers are downright scary

 

[Hogprint]

but I don't see any way NJ can afford to maintain a heavy contract burden in today's market. I originally stated that I though it would happen by year's end. Now I think it will be much sooner.

A heavy contract burden? I've said this on more than one occasion on this forum, but you seem to be very ignorant of our '05 contract. The 04 to 05 comparison of what monies were offered and what was given are huge. In fact I think we left money on the table but that is another debate for another day.

I can assure you there is no BURDEN involved.

I would add to our hypothetical scenario, I would be curious if management would take a lower salary to keep pilots and VP's to the VP on property? Think that'll happen? If it does I'll eat my hat and yours.

 

[FLYLOW22]

My version of "bigger" will be pct of flight crews and airplanes vs. any of the others. I hope it's not true, but I don't see any way NJ can afford to maintain a heavy contract burden in today's market. I originally stated that I though it would happen by year's end. Now I think it will be much sooner.

When it happens, what I will be curious about will be if NJASAP would be willing to renegotiate the contract prior to the furloughs to a lower pay amount that will keep more pilots on the property or if they will just maintain status quo and let the bottom seniority guys drop off. If they attempt to re-negotiate before and take pay cuts to save jobs, I'll eat my hat.

Market observation... it seems that the market is consolidating.

I would wager that there will be fewer companies out there, sooner than later, to fly fractional customers.

Those customers will need to go somewhere.

NJA will be open for business, and at full strength.

Let me know how the hat tastes... nut sack.

 

[realityman]

.

But the point is ... Concessions don't save jobs.

History has proven this point time and time again. Well said Gun.

 

[AvroJockey]

Love the big, blue font as well. That's classy.

You know how I know he's gay...?

Because he likes Powder Blue Times New Roman.

 

[gunfyter]

you are funny!

The rich ... could careless about your tax cuts..

Then they shouldn't care at all about Pilot Salaries... which is much less significant than the difference in taxes they'll pay....

No Concessions.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Payroll or Headcount?

Concesssions are the dumb mistake airline unions have committed. Now they have to work to go back where they were decades ago.

Fracs are a different business model. Parking airplanes does not diminish the value of them for the owners if the flying can be accomplished with fewer airplanes. By parking airplanes and reducing the cost of labor, a fractional can keep the company stable during the economic downturn.

The question is, how does that labor cost get reduced during the period of reduced flying? Does NJASAP renegotiate with the company to reduce the amount of money spent on labor or does NJASAP keep the existing contract and support reducing the headcount?

Either way, the overall cost of labor will need to be reduced, either through reduced payroll or reduced headcount.

My question is, will NJASAP choose what our new president suggested in his speech yesterday or will they go against the new president (who is a union advocate) and allow headcount to be reduced?

Historically, unions choose to protect the high payroll over headcount. I don't see NJASAP doing anything different than any other union, and the break from the IBT will hurt them during these tough times.

 

[Diesel]

I have said for years that the fractional bubble would pop and the current economic situation is the catalyst. Things are going to get much worse before they get better unfortunately.

Well then you've been wrong for years. Its easy to play rainmaker.