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Are SkyWest Pilots Hurting The Industry?

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BigHangar

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2004
Posts
72
This thread is not intended as flamebait. I would truly like to see some intelligent discussion to see how people view this real issue. Obviously with the degradation of the industry, there are causes. This may or may not be one of them. What do you think?

I am too lazy to write my opinion again, so here are my comments from another thread:

'When is everyone going to understand?! SkyWest pilots don't vote on anything...they don't have a union! Management dictates to their employees how it is going to be, period. Now, to make employees feel warm and fuzzy like they actually have representation, management talks to the pilot association SAPA which has no power, use a little vasoline, and voila...the pilots feel like they actually had some say in the matter. Then later on, everyone in the industry accuses them of selling out with some crappy contract which really doesn't exist.

So, lets repeat it together. SkyWest pilots didn't vote to fly 70/90 seaters for 50 pay rates. They voted many times to not have a union. That is were the problem lies. I know many great SkyWest pilots that would never want to screw other pilots at other airlines, but they just have absolutely no say in the matter. SkyWest management is very capable of doing all the screwing...enabled of course by a low cost labor group. They are low cost because they have no contract which is generally more expensive and helps raise the bar throughout the industry. With that fact, I believe it is an ongoing circle of screwing, and indeed if SkyWest management screws other pilots and airlines (not saying they do, just theoretically if they did or have or will), it is the pilots fault.'

Please don't turn this thread into trash talking! Just looking for real discussion.
 
The industry is hurting the industry.

Just wait it out.
 
Right......SkyWest is "hurting" the industry because they are non union......get a life dork.
 
It's not so much that SkyWest is hurting the industry, as it's hurting America. Stop....stop hurting America.

/Jon Stewart
 
KO King said:
Right......SkyWest is "hurting" the industry because they are non union......get a life dork.
Click to expand...

I don't think union vs non union is the issue, I think agreeing to fly 70 seat RJs for 50 seat pay is the issue.

The problem with a "short term" lowering of the bar to get the growth is that it NEVER turns out to be short term.
 
YAWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNN


This place is getting so freakin boring hearing the same ol crap being talked out..How many times can a dead horse be flogged..

You know what really hurts? Getting kicked in the nuts by a mule.
 
Major Metalhead said:
You know what really hurts? Getting kicked in the nuts by a mule.
Click to expand...

"Ya know what it's like to fall in the mud, and get kicked, in the head!... by an iron boot?!... 'Course you don't. No one does. That never happens. Sorry, Ted, that's a dumb question; skip that."

-Robert Stack, Airplane
 
YES. They took growth for 50 seat wages on anything up to 99 seats. Shortsighted for sure. That agreement set the benchmark, until Jetblue did with their new 100 seat rates. Those rates will be with all of us for years to come, until Virgin America starts up.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
BigHangar said:
They are low cost because they have no contract which is generally more expensive and helps raise the bar throughout the industry.
Click to expand...

A main reason SkyWest can offer a "low cost" in a bidding war is because of the large amount of cash it has in the bank. Skywest gets by-far the lowest rates when aquiring new a/c. Secondly, look at "the bar" for our competitors for UEX flying...ie. Go-Jet, Mesa, Chautauqua, Trans States. We have managed to keep low bids without making the pilots lower the bar near or below them.
 
We are ALL guilty for many of the things that are happining right now. And when I say ALL, that includes both the regional and mainline pilot groups, regardless of company.

So yes, let's continue to reduce our wages, work rules, time off, and above all our respect down to nothing, so we can have the privledge of working at these airlines. I think it's hilarious when people try to blame one demographic for the ails of this industry right now, thinking they are somehow exempt from any blame. Give me a break. We are all f*cking up, and have been for years.
 
It's all our fault man. We all new 12 years ago what would happen in the future. We knew that the whole industry would be in turmoil and we were so freaking smart that we thought we would just sit back and capitalize on the whole thing. Dang we're smart.
 
DCMartin said:
Skywest gets by-far the lowest rates when aquiring new a/c.
Click to expand...

I doubt it. They do get there DL aircraft thru DAL. Skywest was going to get 7 aircraft recently but DAL moved them over to there subsdiary.
 
You know, a union is not needed when a work group is not abused by their management. Maybe that says something about Skywest's management.
 
DGdaPilot said:
You know, a union is not needed when a work group is not abused by their management. Maybe that says something about Skywest's management.
Click to expand...

You may be correct.

I guess they asked for the abuse when the pilots signed off on the LOA for the 50, 70 and possible 90 seat rates without a binding arbitration clause.

So is that called self mutilation?
 
skywest benefits from everyone elses hard fought union contracts, then jumps in and takes what other union members have paid and worked hard for.
We set the bar and skywest ducks under it.

They are like the welfare reciepts that sit at home and watch jerry springer all day, eating twinkees and potato chips, and getting paid. While everyone else is out there working hard to support them.

Sapa and skywest pilots are the biggest threat to this whole industry. What a joke they are thinking they have any power at all as they take everyone elses job.
 
Granted, this is coming from a CFI flunky who really doesn't know what the heck he's talking about, but SkyWest is really the only regional that I'm seriously consider going to. (Well, that and Cape Air, but I don't really consider them a "regional" in the traditional sense.) Sure, there's no way to know whether I'll actually get that job or not, but I suppose I can cross that bridge when I come to it.

Now, it should be mentioned that this preference of mine has little to do with union vs. non, (I just don't have any great desire to go to a regional, period, but SKW would get me closer to home) but the fact that SkyWest is non-union is what I'd consider "icing on the cake."

Goose,
insolent youngster
 
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I thought that intelligent was a link and you were going to give us the definition. Tried to click on it, oh well.
 
FlyChicaga said:
We are ALL guilty for many of the things that are happining right now. And when I say ALL, that includes both the regional and mainline pilot groups, regardless of company.

So yes, let's continue to reduce our wages, work rules, time off, and above all our respect down to nothing, so we can have the privledge of working at these airlines. I think it's hilarious when people try to blame one demographic for the ails of this industry right now, thinking they are somehow exempt from any blame. Give me a break. We are all f*cking up, and have been for years.
Click to expand...

Very well thought out and very well expressed. We are all to blame for our lack of solidarity in dealing with the management types. But it all really boils down to the simple laws of supply and demand. There is such an excess supply of pilots that we are unable to demand reasonable work rules, wages, etc. as someone else is always willing to do it for less. What a crazy industry this has become. . .
 
Texx said:
I doubt it. They do get there DL aircraft thru DAL. Skywest was going to get 7 aircraft recently but DAL moved them over to there subsdiary.
Click to expand...

SkyWest does get have some of the best financing rates in the industry, but your right a part of the DAL contract calls for DAL to be responsible for the airplanes, meaning if SkyWest loses DAL flying, DAL is responsible for taking the over the leases on the airplanes.
 
s.o.sJTB said:
SkyWest does get have some of the best financing rates in the industry, but your right a part of the DAL contract calls for DAL to be responsible for the airplanes, meaning if SkyWest loses DAL flying, DAL is responsible for taking the over the leases on the airplanes.
Click to expand...

Could that be changed in Chap 11? What did United do to their carriers in Chap 11? It could be a whole new ball game. Mesa could move into SLC soon afterwards. You never know.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Actually, it's only half-truth. We do our own financing and deliveries, but we only take them and put them into service if a major partner is willing to accept the risk by: 1) entering the fee-for-departure on the additional flying undertaken, and; 2) by asusming the risk for lease payments (a large majority of ours are LT operational leases) and aircraft pending dissolution of contract flying. Neither major partner has anything directly to do with financing or ordering, just subsequent route placement. I suppose the current 'outs' could be addressed in bankruptcy. Everything is, at all times, negotiable--especially legal contracts.

Aside: So I've been lurking for two years--what spurned me to start posting over the last few days? Engaging in self-directed rhetoric here...
 
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English said:
The industry is hurting the industry.

Just wait it out.
Click to expand...

The important thing to notice here is that English is now a MODERATOR!!!!!

So, all you dudes better watch your manners and cuss words!

English: For what types of filth are you willing to ban a dude?!:D

C
 

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