Are Pilots Forgetting How to Fly?

[Dumb Pilot]

The days when pilots learned how to fly in a/c's that required skill are long gone, the new generation of pilots think that partial glass is "old school" these individuals are not forgetting to fly they never did learn in the first place, this new generation thinks that the right seat of an RJ is the first stage of their careers and having barely ATP minimums is the right time to go to the left seat, entitled little prima donnas that think that because they can strike the next key in the FMS faster than the next page is displayed on the CDU that equates to having aviator skills. uke:

 

[Bambam]

As a bus Capt, I can tell you that the overuse of automation is an inticing elixur. We have people who are afraid to turn off the automation at my company because they have never done it. God forbid if some day the automation fails and they have to fly an ILS to cat I mins.

Flying is a perishable skill that you must practice to be good at. If you haven't done a raw data ILS in a while, try one with no flight directors and no auto anything. It may surprise you how much you have come to rely on the "magic" to get you where you are supposed to be.

Fly safe

Bambam

 

[IBNAV8R]

Seems like we've recently had this debate. There are those who firmly believe that it is less safe to hand fly and, that it is unprofessional to "practice" with paying passengers on board.

I suggest this: If you cannot fly the airplane as smoothly and safely as the autopilot, you have no business in the front office. No - I'm by no means a super-pilot, I just practice.

I guess I'll choose being "unprofessional" than being dead when the SHTF. Oh, and I'm willing to bet my passengers will appreciate that too.

 

[waveflyer]

IB- +100%

EatinRamen- I also agree that nothing replaces talent. But you know the difference between Allen Iverson and Michael Jordan besides the 6 championships- one didn't practice.
We all need practice. I'd rather have an average pilot who practices and keeps his discipline than a great talent who doesn't keep that talent up to speed.
The autopilot doesn't need practice- we do. And I'd say that mentality of trying to have no weaknesses is the defining factor in "great pilot"
I will say that there are also a whole lot of pilots who need to study and practice the automation- who click it off BECAUSE it overwhelms them- I'd say that's just as bad.

 

[labbats]

EatinRamen- I also agree that nothing replaces talent. But you know the difference between Allen Iverson and Michael Jordan besides the 6 championships- one didn't practice.

We talkin' bout practice!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI

 

[waveflyer]

"Not a game, not a game... We're talkin bout practice"
Love it- only "both teams played hard" Sheed competes
;-)

 

[igneousy2]

I agree with what pretty much everyone is saying. I will add that a good pilot will get the automation clicked off more often, not for practice necessarilly, but because it's just easier. If you know what you're doing, it's way easier to recover from a bad vector at the marker with everything off...turn it off...make it pretty for the A/P...and then turn it back on.

My beef is with the fact that I believe that the accidents that they are referencing have more to do with pilots complete LACK of skills as opposed to the RUSTY skills that we are talking about.

The distinction seems fine/nit-picky, but is important, as the solutions for each of the problems are completely different.

 

[s3jetman]

WHERE IS ALPA!

These kind of articles infuriate me.

In order for pilot skills to get rusty, YOU HAD TO HAVE HAD THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE!

What about the 300 hour wonders that airlines like Colgan hire because they are cheap...give them 2000 hours at FL250 in a turbo-prop, make them a Captain, then act surprised when there pilot skills don't magically appear at the OM when there airplane is stalled.


WHERE IS ALPA?

I know everyone hates Gulfstream but as I have been saying its the best place to step up to the airline flying. No auto pilot, hand flying in north east and west mountain areas, ice, snow approaches to nothing many times. If the captains are trained correctly its not a hazard as the 1900 is a single pilot rated plane, which provides another layer of safety. Best environment to learn the airline business. And now that we are no longer PFT its not the cancer to the business that it once was. Just my thoughts

 

[densoo]

I am also a huge believer in aerobatic instruction. Not necessarily to teach 8 point rolls or tumbles, but once you are comfortable being upside down it never leaves you. When you hit wake that is strong enough to leave you past 90 degrees this training will most certainly help the outcome.

++

I don't see how flying with pax with a/p off would help the pilots in the stalling airbus or the 737 hardover rudder unusual attitude. You've got to fly stalls of all kinds at all altitudes, and recover from out of the envelope attitudes, to get these skills. 45 nose high, 60 bank, airspeed rapidly decreasing through maneuver speed is not the time to figure out what your first move should be.

 

[thepotato232]

I know everyone hates Gulfstream but as I have been saying its the best place to step up to the airline flying. No auto pilot, hand flying in north east and west mountain areas, ice, snow approaches to nothing many times. If the captains are trained correctly its not a hazard as the 1900 is a single pilot rated plane, which provides another layer of safety. Best environment to learn the airline business. And now that we are no longer PFT its not the cancer to the business that it once was. Just my thoughts

One should likely check the pedigree of the captain whose actions sparked this discussion before making such claims. Or that of a couple of other infamous regional accident pilots, for that matter.

That type of flying, yes. That company, no. One of many sad truths in this mess is that jobs which regularly demand and reinforce the bedrock principles of aviation are all but disappearing. Those that remain are almost exclusively the domain of companies that make an RJ gig look cushy by comparison. An honest question: With general aviation dying on the vine and airline companies taking the "pass him or we've wasted our dough" approach to pilot training, where do neophyte pilots learn these skills if not in the cockpit of an airliner?

 

[waveflyer]

++

I don't see how flying with pax with a/p off would help the pilots in the stalling airbus or the 737 hardover rudder unusual attitude. You've got to fly stalls of all kinds at all altitudes, and recover from out of the envelope attitudes, to get these skills. 45 nose high, 60 bank, airspeed rapidly decreasing through maneuver speed is not the time to figure out what your first move should be.

Got to walk before you run.

Handflying is absolutely essential to those greater skills and a ridiculous amount of us do not have the simplest feel for the airplanes we fly. And there is no good justification for it.

 

[densoo]

Handflying is absolutely essential to those greater skills and a ridiculous amount of us do not have the simplest feel for the airplanes we fly. And there is no good justification for it.

It saves money.

 

[waveflyer]

Seriously?

 

[Dan Roman]

If you are not comfortable hand flying whatever A/C you are on with both the automation on and off, you need practice. The best way to do that is to hand fly the airplane. If you can't do it smoothly you need to find a way to improve your flying skills on your days off.
Anybody who cannot smoothly and comfortably fly their A/C in all regimes they operate in and is unwilling to rectify that is in the wrong line of work.

 

[Dan Roman]

++

I don't see how flying with pax with a/p off would help the pilots in the stalling airbus or the 737 hardover rudder unusual attitude. You've got to fly stalls of all kinds at all altitudes, and recover from out of the envelope attitudes, to get these skills. 45 nose high, 60 bank, airspeed rapidly decreasing through maneuver speed is not the time to figure out what your first move should be.

If you have good hand flying skills you are less likely to get into a bad situation and if you do because of a mechanical problem you are more likely to be able to fly out of it.What's so complicated about that?