Arbitrator Rules Furloughed US Airways Pilots Will Lose Seniority

[aa73]

TWA folks: you all know that I have always supported binding arbitration during integrations.

That said, it has been widely stated from sources throughout the industry that a neutral arbitrator would have imposed something VERY SIMILAR - if not worse - than what we ended up with. So in the end, whether it's by arbitration or self-imposed integration, the result can sometimes be the same.

HOWEVER... you are absolutely correct in saying that the PROCESS of a nuetral is the fair way to do it. I've always agreed with that, even on my own union message board (and suffered the consequences from my fellow pilots for stating as much.... :uzi: !73

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Arbitrator Rules Furloughed US Airways Pilots will loose seniority???

This title is very misleading. The US Airways pilots didn't loose any seniority. The top guy is still at the top and the bottom guy is still at the bottom.

If you have been at an airline for 19 years and you are the bottom guy on the list you don't have 19 yrs of seniority...you have 19 yrs of longevity. There is a big difference. The bottom guy has no seniority no matter how long he's been there. Furloughed pilots have zero seniority. How can you have seniority if you don't have a job?

The East MEC wanted an integration based on longevity which would have made the East pilots disproportionately senior to the West guys. The arbitrator, and just about everybody else, said this was not a fair and equitable way to integrate.

Nothing changed for me, either. Before the integration I was in the low 80's percentile of the AWA list. Now I am still in the low 80's percentile of the new list. Where did I gain seniority?

 

[nwaredtail]

Arbitrator Rules Furloughed US Airways Pilots will loose seniority???

This title is very misleading. The US Airways pilots didn't loose any seniority. The top guy is still at the top and the bottom guy is still at the bottom.

If you have been at an airline for 19 years and you are the bottom guy on the list you don't have 19 yrs of seniority...you have 19 yrs of longevity. There is a big difference. The bottom guy has no seniority no matter how long he's been there. Furloughed pilots have zero seniority. How can you have seniority if you don't have a job?

The East MEC wanted an integration based on longevity which would have made the East pilots disproportionately senior to the West guys. The arbitrator, and just about everybody else, said this was not a fair and equitable way to integrate.

Nothing changed for me, either. Before the integration I was in the low 80's percentile of the AWA list. Now I am still in the low 80's percentile of the new list. Where did I gain seniority?

There you go with those pesky facts again. Maybe this will teach pilots to not go for the money grab and work together (yeah right) The best part was the arbitrator made it very clear to the AAA merger committee he would not be giving DOH but that was their only proposal.

As I watched RJ after RJ take off last week from PHL and LGA, THATS where the AAA Captain jobs are, given away in an effort to save their pension. THATS who the junior AAA guys should be angry at......

 

[Dogwood]

Without the West, you would have been liquidated. It doesn't matter that right now your side has the better yields or whatever, the point of all of this is that you would have shut down and someone else would have taken your Shuttle flying and your slots at LGA, DCA, etc. Gone. It is time for you cry babies to wake up and not be so snotty. You both accepted arbitration, and it didn't go your way. That is your fault.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I'm just glad someone jumped in this thread, who has a crystal ball, and was able to tell us exactly what was going to happen. That should clear up any discussion on who saved who. Give me a break.

This coming from a Delta empoyee, who works for a company that just came out of BK, and screwed many creditors out of a lot of money. Maybe one of those creditors should get a number on the Delta sen list since they saved you.

That award was a disgrace to our profession.

As I've stated before, the lack of fences was the main problem.

 

[glasspilot1]

TWA ALPA waived binding arbitration. We can rehash the details of that waiver, but TWA ALPA was between a rock & hard place. With TWA declaring Ch 11, they were in the process of filing an 1113 motion to abrogate TWA ALPA's right to binding arbitration.

Andy (by the way, I'm Andy too):

We're well aware of that. We're (ex TWA'ers) just saying the US east guys are complaining when they got a he!! of a lot better deal than we did. It's hard to hear them complain about a shi**y deal when they don't know what a shi**y deal really is!

 

[glasspilot1]

Could you please provide the following: Who was this mediator, when did he write what you quoted and what was the context, and cite your source.

Dude, as you know, these guys have to assume we were about to disappear to justify the sh*t sandwich they gave us! They WILL NOT ACCEPT any idea that we may have actually survived without AA because that would undermine their argument.

 

[TWA Dude]

As I watched RJ after RJ take off last week from PHL and LGA, THATS where the AAA Captain jobs are, given away in an effort to save their pension. THATS who the junior AAA guys should be angry at......

Wow. It's been over fifteen years since the RJ Revolution yet some people still misplace their anger. No, being angry at those RJs is not the right place because those RJs didn't steal mainline flying, IT WAS GIVEN TO THEM BY MAINLINE. And the same thing has taken place at every airline with codeshare partners.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I'm just glad someone jumped in this thread, who has a crystal ball, and was able to tell us exactly what was going to happen. That should clear up any discussion on who saved who. Give me a break.

This coming from a Delta empoyee, who works for a company that just came out of BK, and screwed many creditors out of a lot of money. Maybe one of those creditors should get a number on the Delta sen list since they saved you.

That award was a disgrace to our profession.

As I've stated before, the lack of fences was the main problem.

You sound as though you feel you were entitled to something! The REAL problem was/continues to be how your MEC and your MC poorly managed you expectations!! You feel that you should be able to right the wrongs of the past and the back to back bankruptcies, poor management etc. on the backs and at the expense of the AWA pilots. This award was more than fair to the east considering the alternative!!!

WD

 

[Hpilot]

glasspilot1,

I know this is off subject. What kind of bike is that? At first glance I thought a Triumph Trident.

 

[Traderd]

glasspilot1,

I know this is off subject. What kind of bike is that? At first glance I thought a Triumph Trident.

I had the same question... except I believe it to be the infamous Suzuki GT500 "Water Buffalo". Smooth ride if I recall; two cycle water cooled triple.