Arbitrator Rules Furloughed US Airways Pilots Will Lose Seniority

[4lowed]

What happens if the MidAtlantic pilots win their lawsuit proving that they were actually recalled, and MDA was not separate from mainline? That means that as of May 2005 the most junior CEL pilot was ACTIVE at AAA. Will they have to reintegrate the lists?

4lowed

 

[UALjan15]

Wasn't the other 18 page thread sufficient to cover this ad-nauseum? There's nothing new here. Sure, this will be debated until we all retire, but I think just about everything to be said was said last week. If you keep picking at the scab, it isn't going to heal.

 

[Splert]

What happens if the MidAtlantic pilots win their lawsuit proving that they were actually recalled, and MDA was not separate from mainline? That means that as of May 2005 the most junior CEL pilot was ACTIVE at AAA. Will they have to reintegrate the lists?

4lowed

Seniority integration is a matter for collective agreements not the courts. There has never been an integration that was overturned or modified by a court.

Will this be the first? No, integration is decided by collective bargaining just like the AWA and U integration.

 

[bearcat]

Without the West, you would have been liquidated. It doesn't matter that right now your side has the better yields or whatever, the point of all of this is that you would have shut down and someone else would have taken your Shuttle flying and your slots at LGA, DCA, etc. Gone. It is time for you cry babies to wake up and not be so snotty. You both accepted arbitration, and it didn't go your way. That is your fault.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Moron, as stated I am not for here or there. I don't work for either of those companies. You seemed to have missed the point. Once again the WEST did nothing. If it wasn't for the investors...you too may be working for Mesa.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

Moron, as stated I am not for here or there. I don't work for either of those companies. You seemed to have missed the point. Once again the WEST did nothing. If it wasn't for the investors...you too may be working for Mesa.

So whose good credit did the investors believe in-AWA's or USAirways?

 

[Cloudroller]

I dont think happy results are possible... both pilot groups wanted to completely hose the other... no matter what happened someone will be pissed.

More like the US guys wanted to hose the HP guys. US was in Bankruptcy twice and would be gone if HP did not buy them.

 

[glasspilot1]

Huh?

This is similar to the American/TWA aquisition except the unions were different (APA/ALPA).

We (TWA) would have loved binding arbitration. Anything would have been better than what we were made to choke on from the APA.

 

[TWA Dude]

I think the moral of the story, (repeated again from history) NEVER, NEVER, NEVER let an "nuetral" arbitrator decide senority integration. Can someone point out a good merger that went to arbitration and settled with happy results? It always seems to be a landslide victory for one side or the other.

That's easy to say yet you fail to provide a more fair way to do it. Don't forget that integrations end up in arbitration because the sides can't agree. What neutral body exists to decide? The ALPA EC in DC? That's a political body. So I ask again: if not a neutral arbitrator then WHO?

 

[TWA Dude]

This is similar to the American/TWA aquisition except the unions were different (APA/ALPA).

We ex-TWAers can only wish it had been so similar. Had the same Nicolau Award been imposed on AA/TWA we'd be very happy campers since all active pilots were slotted. Might want to think before you write.

 

[BigMotorToter]

The APA was under no obligation to arbitrate seniority integration with TWA. APA's CBA is very simple - to the bottom of the list you go.

Even if TWA/ALPA arbitration survived the negotiating process with AMR, the APA did not have to agree to enter arbitration with TWA. The arbitration would have been between APA and AMR not APA pilots and TWA pilots.

Not that it matted, the APA went against their own agreement and agreed to integrate TWA pilots – instead of stapling all of them.

But some will still say TWA pilots were screwed.

Hey man chowder lover,

Why don't you go do what you do best and create more message board names from sounds that come from your bathroom when you are in there by yourself.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

East pilots demanded DOH integration. West pilots said "hell no". Both sides agree to binding arbitration, the East because they were confident they'd get the decision they wanted and the West because they knew it was the only shot they had at not getting totally hosed. The independent, neutral arbitrator made his decision and now East pilots (the same ones that demanded DOH and yet agreed to binding arbitration) are supposedly ready to STFD because they don't like the decision?

I have nothing to do with this whole mess other than flying for a US contract regional, but I would like to know one thing - What exactly can ALPA do to appease the East pilots? The East MEC wasn't willing to negotiate a reasonable integration with the West MEC before...now "with nothing to lose" after the arbitrator has ruled, what do they propose?

Absolutly nothing!! ALPA is bound by sec 45 and now must defend the award. Thisg will calm down over time, it always does..

WD.

 

[Mookie]

The arbitrators name was Kasher, was it????


Mookie

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Yeah, I have to say I think the US Air guys got a pretty good deal. With all of the senior US Air guys staying in the left seat on the international routes, they're sitting pretty. I personally think that all of the ACTIVE pilots of both airlines should have been integrated by relative seniority, with all furloughed guys stapled on the bottom by DOH. I'm sorry that some of you feel you got hosed. But before the merger, the US Air guys had ZERO possibilities and career expectations. I wouldn't be fair to the America West pilots to have DOH. They would have NEVER recovered.

 

[Splert]

Hey man chowder lover,

Why don't you go do what you do best and create more message board names from sounds that come from your bathroom when you are in there by yourself.

Deal with it. TWA was integrated when APA could have rightly stapled your man chowder loving lips to the rear of the list where you love it. That was fun...

TWA was 24 hours from being liquidated - but you were screwed. What a fuxked up bunch of whiners pilot are. You have a job or recall rights instead of an application in a stack of 10 of thousands at another airlines.

Don't make me crawl though your computer screen and beat you with your mouse - give it a rest.

 

[TWA Dude]

TWA was 24 hours from being liquidated

Not true. There was a promisory note due later in January, 2001, but that would likely have been refinanced. TWA was in poor financial shape, to be sure, but to say it was 24 hours from liquidation is unsubstantiated and specious. The former TWA MEC Chairman and member of the BOD (IOW, somebody who knows a lot more about this than you) has stated that there was another plan for TWA had the AA buyout not been announced. TWA entered bankruptcy on January 10, 2001, for one reason: to accede to Carty's plan.