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AQ PILOT
God I love layovers...
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2002
- Posts
- 232
If 6" stripper heels means, something that you can see thru and holds up a mighty fine calf or two walking on Kuhio, then yes, that is exactly what I mean....
So the answer to the original question is yes....the funding requires we roll over and take it up the Yucaipa. Or so they say. Personally, I believes 'em. Then again, we may be able to negotiate something in return...but who knows... "Labor friendly" my Yucaipa....
So the answer to the original question is yes....the funding requires we roll over and take it up the Yucaipa. Or so they say. Personally, I believes 'em. Then again, we may be able to negotiate something in return...but who knows... "Labor friendly" my Yucaipa....
RJP
Registered Eye-Poker
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2004
- Posts
- 1,005
Aloha workers 'tired' of bad news
By Lynda Arakawa
Advertiser Staff Writer
For many Aloha Airlines employees, the company's proposal to terminate pensions for about 3,000 employees and retirees was just the latest in a string of bad news.
"There's a lot of 'when is this going to stop' kind of attitude," said reservations agent Clareen Gaddis. "They're just tired of it already. A lot of us stayed on because of the pension.
"It's just heartbreaking. Everybody's just so down," said Gaddis, who is a union shop steward. "It's a down kind of feeling right now, especially for the old-timers. Some of our old-timers that were at the union meeting, they're just tired; you could see it on their faces. It's like, 'Oh, man, we have to go back and tell the members this now?' "
Aloha Airlines, which filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection last December, said last week it wants to terminate its defined-benefit plans on Dec. 31 and turn them over to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., the federal agency that insures basic pension benefits. Aloha said it also wants employees to pay a share of their health insurance premiums, which are currently fully funded by the company.
These steps are part of the company's plan to emerge from bankruptcy this year and require U.S. Bankruptcy Court approval.
"Our goal is to keep Aloha operating and to preserve the jobs of 3,500 employees," Aloha said in a written statement yesterday.
"With regard to health benefits, we believe Aloha is unique as a company that continues to pay 100 percent of medical and dental health plans for its employees and their dependents. The escalating cost of medical and dental coverage requires that we share these costs."
Hawai'i's No. 2 carrier also said businesses across America — not only airlines — are terminating defined-benefit pension programs.
"In contrast to many companies that have terminated their pension plans, Aloha's defined-benefits plans, if turned over to the PBGC, should adequately protect most of our employees," Aloha said. "According to the PBGC, more than 90 percent of participants in plans taken over by the PBGC face no reduction in benefits."
Still, some employee unions are pushing for other alternatives to the PBGC and are negotiating with Aloha this week.
"The pension is the major issue for us," said Gaddis, who has worked for Aloha for 13 years. "That's what everybody works for. All the people who gave 20, 30 years, that's what they worked for so ... they'll be taken care of. ... It's just sad. It's just really, really sad what it's come to."
Aloha's management and unionized workers took a 10 percent pay reduction this year, which is on top of 10 percent pay cuts that employees had accepted in January 2003.
"Some guys are still in a state of shock," said airline mechanic Randy Gomes. "Everybody is kind of numb already. Everything's been bad news; there hasn't been any good news lately. You just show up at your job and hope that that job is there next year and the year after."
When the government takes over an airline's pension plan, highly compensated employees such as pilots and executives could see a dramatic drop in benefits.
The maximum paid by PBGC for workers retiring this year at age 65 is about $45,614 per year. U.S. aviation rules require pilots to retire at age 60. The maximum payout to workers retiring at age 60 is about $29,650 annually.
"As a pilot, at age 60, no matter what, you're out," said Michael Feeney, an Aloha Airlines pilot and spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association. "Let's be honest, you're qualified to land a jet plane in a snowstorm with an engine on fire and not a lot else. So it's a huge, huge concern. Some people may consider the pensions over generous, but there's a real reason for it because you're out of work."
Feeney, who has been working for Aloha for 15 years, said the pilots' union is meeting with Aloha this week and has been discussing pension matters for more than a year, with negotiations being more active in the past month. The union has been pushing for the company to convert pilots' pensions to a defined contribution plan similar to a 401(k) "because we don't want to rely on the government or the airline staying in business," he said.
"It's not the stable industry it was 20 years ago," Feeney said.
"We made a commitment to work for them for life, and they made a commitment to take care of us and they're reneging on it," he said. "And if they have to because of the way the world has changed, that's fine but we need to replace that pension with something else. And that's what we're working on with them. So hopefully we come to an agreement."
Last month, Aloha announced that California billionaire Ron Burkle's Yucaipa Cos. and former football star Willie Gault's Aloha Aviation Group LLC agreed to buy the airline. The $100 million-plus deal, which requires court approval, would allow the state's second-largest carrier to exit bankruptcy by the end of the year.
AGENCY PROTECTING BENEFITS SINCE 1974
Aloha Airlines proposes to turn over its defined-benefit plan to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. at the end of the year. The transfer would require U.S. Bankruptcy Court approval and may result in some highly paid workers having their retirement benefits cut by as much as 50 percent.
Q. What is the agency?
A. The PBGC has been around since 1974 to protect workers' pension benefits. It insures the retirement benefits of 44.4 million Americans in 31,200 pension plans. Last year it paid more than $3 billion of benefits to retirees of terminated plans.
Q. How does it work?
A. The agency takes responsibility for paying benefits to current and future retirees when a plan ends without money to pay participants. The agency, funded by insurance premiums paid by plan sponsors, is limited by law in what it pays to plan participants.
Q. Who is eligible?
A. Participants in defined-benefit plans, or those that promise to pay a specific monthly amount during retirement. Defined-contribution plans such as 401(k) plans aren't eligible. Employees can ask their employers if their plan is covered.
Q. What warning will I get that a plan is ending?
A. Your employer is required to notify you in writing at least 60 days before it ends.
Q. What happens if the plan is turned over to the agency?
A. Employee records are reviewed to determine benefits. Participants also will be asked to provide information. If someone is already receiving payments they will continue to do so while the information is reviewed.
Q. What does the PBGC pay?
A. Most participants of plans taken over by PBGC receive the full benefit they would have received under their company's plan. In some cases, the benefits promised by an employer exceed the PBGC's limits, and the employees do not receive all their benefits.
Q. What's the maximum paid?
A. For pension plans ending this year, the maximum amount is $3,801 per month, or $45,614 per year for workers retiring at age 65. U.S. aviation rules require pilots to retire at age 60. The maximum payout to workers retiring at age 60 is about $2,471 a month, or $29,650 annually.
Q. What isn't covered by the PBGC?
A. There are no guarantees for healthcare, vacation pay or severance pay. Lump-sum payments for a death that occurs after the date the plan ended and disability payments for disabilities after its termination aren't guaranteed.
Q. Where can I go for more information?
A. The PBGC Web site is www.pbgc.gov.
— Greg Wiles, Advertiser Staff Writer
Source: Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., USA Today
By Lynda Arakawa
Advertiser Staff Writer
For many Aloha Airlines employees, the company's proposal to terminate pensions for about 3,000 employees and retirees was just the latest in a string of bad news.
"There's a lot of 'when is this going to stop' kind of attitude," said reservations agent Clareen Gaddis. "They're just tired of it already. A lot of us stayed on because of the pension.
"It's just heartbreaking. Everybody's just so down," said Gaddis, who is a union shop steward. "It's a down kind of feeling right now, especially for the old-timers. Some of our old-timers that were at the union meeting, they're just tired; you could see it on their faces. It's like, 'Oh, man, we have to go back and tell the members this now?' "
Aloha Airlines, which filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection last December, said last week it wants to terminate its defined-benefit plans on Dec. 31 and turn them over to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., the federal agency that insures basic pension benefits. Aloha said it also wants employees to pay a share of their health insurance premiums, which are currently fully funded by the company.
These steps are part of the company's plan to emerge from bankruptcy this year and require U.S. Bankruptcy Court approval.
"Our goal is to keep Aloha operating and to preserve the jobs of 3,500 employees," Aloha said in a written statement yesterday.
"With regard to health benefits, we believe Aloha is unique as a company that continues to pay 100 percent of medical and dental health plans for its employees and their dependents. The escalating cost of medical and dental coverage requires that we share these costs."
Hawai'i's No. 2 carrier also said businesses across America — not only airlines — are terminating defined-benefit pension programs.
"In contrast to many companies that have terminated their pension plans, Aloha's defined-benefits plans, if turned over to the PBGC, should adequately protect most of our employees," Aloha said. "According to the PBGC, more than 90 percent of participants in plans taken over by the PBGC face no reduction in benefits."
Still, some employee unions are pushing for other alternatives to the PBGC and are negotiating with Aloha this week.
"The pension is the major issue for us," said Gaddis, who has worked for Aloha for 13 years. "That's what everybody works for. All the people who gave 20, 30 years, that's what they worked for so ... they'll be taken care of. ... It's just sad. It's just really, really sad what it's come to."
Aloha's management and unionized workers took a 10 percent pay reduction this year, which is on top of 10 percent pay cuts that employees had accepted in January 2003.
"Some guys are still in a state of shock," said airline mechanic Randy Gomes. "Everybody is kind of numb already. Everything's been bad news; there hasn't been any good news lately. You just show up at your job and hope that that job is there next year and the year after."
When the government takes over an airline's pension plan, highly compensated employees such as pilots and executives could see a dramatic drop in benefits.
The maximum paid by PBGC for workers retiring this year at age 65 is about $45,614 per year. U.S. aviation rules require pilots to retire at age 60. The maximum payout to workers retiring at age 60 is about $29,650 annually.
"As a pilot, at age 60, no matter what, you're out," said Michael Feeney, an Aloha Airlines pilot and spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association. "Let's be honest, you're qualified to land a jet plane in a snowstorm with an engine on fire and not a lot else. So it's a huge, huge concern. Some people may consider the pensions over generous, but there's a real reason for it because you're out of work."
Feeney, who has been working for Aloha for 15 years, said the pilots' union is meeting with Aloha this week and has been discussing pension matters for more than a year, with negotiations being more active in the past month. The union has been pushing for the company to convert pilots' pensions to a defined contribution plan similar to a 401(k) "because we don't want to rely on the government or the airline staying in business," he said.
"It's not the stable industry it was 20 years ago," Feeney said.
"We made a commitment to work for them for life, and they made a commitment to take care of us and they're reneging on it," he said. "And if they have to because of the way the world has changed, that's fine but we need to replace that pension with something else. And that's what we're working on with them. So hopefully we come to an agreement."
Last month, Aloha announced that California billionaire Ron Burkle's Yucaipa Cos. and former football star Willie Gault's Aloha Aviation Group LLC agreed to buy the airline. The $100 million-plus deal, which requires court approval, would allow the state's second-largest carrier to exit bankruptcy by the end of the year.
AGENCY PROTECTING BENEFITS SINCE 1974
Aloha Airlines proposes to turn over its defined-benefit plan to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. at the end of the year. The transfer would require U.S. Bankruptcy Court approval and may result in some highly paid workers having their retirement benefits cut by as much as 50 percent.
Q. What is the agency?
A. The PBGC has been around since 1974 to protect workers' pension benefits. It insures the retirement benefits of 44.4 million Americans in 31,200 pension plans. Last year it paid more than $3 billion of benefits to retirees of terminated plans.
Q. How does it work?
A. The agency takes responsibility for paying benefits to current and future retirees when a plan ends without money to pay participants. The agency, funded by insurance premiums paid by plan sponsors, is limited by law in what it pays to plan participants.
Q. Who is eligible?
A. Participants in defined-benefit plans, or those that promise to pay a specific monthly amount during retirement. Defined-contribution plans such as 401(k) plans aren't eligible. Employees can ask their employers if their plan is covered.
Q. What warning will I get that a plan is ending?
A. Your employer is required to notify you in writing at least 60 days before it ends.
Q. What happens if the plan is turned over to the agency?
A. Employee records are reviewed to determine benefits. Participants also will be asked to provide information. If someone is already receiving payments they will continue to do so while the information is reviewed.
Q. What does the PBGC pay?
A. Most participants of plans taken over by PBGC receive the full benefit they would have received under their company's plan. In some cases, the benefits promised by an employer exceed the PBGC's limits, and the employees do not receive all their benefits.
Q. What's the maximum paid?
A. For pension plans ending this year, the maximum amount is $3,801 per month, or $45,614 per year for workers retiring at age 65. U.S. aviation rules require pilots to retire at age 60. The maximum payout to workers retiring at age 60 is about $2,471 a month, or $29,650 annually.
Q. What isn't covered by the PBGC?
A. There are no guarantees for healthcare, vacation pay or severance pay. Lump-sum payments for a death that occurs after the date the plan ended and disability payments for disabilities after its termination aren't guaranteed.
Q. Where can I go for more information?
A. The PBGC Web site is www.pbgc.gov.
— Greg Wiles, Advertiser Staff Writer
Source: Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., USA Today
dash8driver
Foamy Specialist
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2002
- Posts
- 1,217
cantgivenomo
Member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2005
- Posts
- 14
dash8driver
Foamy Specialist
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2002
- Posts
- 1,217
cantgivenomo
Member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2005
- Posts
- 14
islandhopper
Clone War veteran
- Joined
- May 9, 2003
- Posts
- 718
I just posted the 1113c filing on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hawaiiflyingjobs/
Look under "files" for aq1113c.pdf
Look under "files" for aq1113c.pdf
AQ PILOT
God I love layovers...
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2002
- Posts
- 232
Oh don't be so dramatic...
This is just an intent to file....doesn't mean they'll actually do it! Oh god...that was funny....
1. On or about Saturday, October 15, 2005, Debtors will file their
Conditional Motion under 1113(c) of the Bankruptcy Code to reject Aloha’s
collective bargaining agreements with certain labor unions and to approve the
termination of Aloha’s defined benefit pension plans (“the 1113 Motion”).
Any of you HAL guys that have any thoughts, they would be greatly appreciated about now!
This is just an intent to file....doesn't mean they'll actually do it! Oh god...that was funny....
1. On or about Saturday, October 15, 2005, Debtors will file their
Conditional Motion under 1113(c) of the Bankruptcy Code to reject Aloha’s
collective bargaining agreements with certain labor unions and to approve the
termination of Aloha’s defined benefit pension plans (“the 1113 Motion”).
Any of you HAL guys that have any thoughts, they would be greatly appreciated about now!
dash8driver
Foamy Specialist
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2002
- Posts
- 1,217
islandhopper
Clone War veteran
- Joined
- May 9, 2003
- Posts
- 718
Sleepyhead
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2001
- Posts
- 320
AQ PILOT said:
Well it is time top be dramatic...
Today was just the first step in the process, they wanted to make sure the judge would agree to an expidated hearing before they filled. He did.
The judge granted their motion today to set a hearing date on Oct 28.
If nothing changes, on the 28th the company will present their case for getting rid of the contracts (the 1113C motion) and we will have to present our reason the judge should reject it. Most likely the judge will tell us to go back and make a deal or else.
Make no mistake about it, the company is drawing the line in the sand with todays motion, they are saying you better settle with us before the 28th or we will go to the judge. IMHO, they think we will cave before the 28th. I hope we don't and the other unions don't either.
RJP
Registered Eye-Poker
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2004
- Posts
- 1,005
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Judge Faris tell the AQ mechanics that they'd better "take what ever you can get from the company because it's going to be much better than what you'll get from me" earlier this year? That lead to cutting their workforce in half and still cutting pay and benefits.Sleepyhead said:
This can not end well. Best of luck over there guys.
AQ PILOT
God I love layovers...
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2002
- Posts
- 232
Actually sleepy, the judge is not expediting the motion. It is set in bk law and can be extended from 14 days to "a period not exceeding seven days where the circumstances of the case, and the interest of justice require such extension". So any look as this as favoritism towards the company by the judge is in my opinion, not correct.
I think Faris has been ok towards labor. Not overly warm, but not as nasty as he could be. These management types put up a pretty good case for how we, the employees, are a cancer to the bottom line. Faris doesn't buy into it all that much. I think he'll give us the same line he gave the HAL guys...go back and negotiate before I do something neither of you likes!
Then again, that is just my opinion. It, and $4 will get you a cup of coffee in Seattle...albeit a small cup....
I think Faris has been ok towards labor. Not overly warm, but not as nasty as he could be. These management types put up a pretty good case for how we, the employees, are a cancer to the bottom line. Faris doesn't buy into it all that much. I think he'll give us the same line he gave the HAL guys...go back and negotiate before I do something neither of you likes!
Then again, that is just my opinion. It, and $4 will get you a cup of coffee in Seattle...albeit a small cup....
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