Apology

[acaTerry]

Now, if the CA choose to be up until 10pm for a 6am dept then that was his decision.

Oh, you forgot the 0140 arrival beforehand...circadian rythmm had nothing to do with adjusting over one day of rest...

But it's my opinion, and I'm not bashing yours. If you feel you are unfit to fly, don't fly.

See how long you keep your job at a regional if you call in sick / fatigued too much...but look at how often they screw with your body clock.

Red ink for clarity of my replies...not for anger

 

[PCL_128]

It has been proven that the CA had 28 in LEX before his flight out that morning. It has also been stated by his widow that she last talked to him before she went to bed at 10pm. Now, if the CA choose to be up until 10pm for a 6am dept then that was his decision. His widow also stated that he had flown out of that airport numerous times in his career with Comair. As for the FO, no real confirmation on how much rest the FO got the night before. The FO may have been the one at the helm, but shouldn't the CA have realized he was on the wrong runway? Did he not taxi the aircraft out there? When they realized their runway had no lighting but the one they crossed over did, shouldn't a bulb have went off inside someone's head? As more details come out, it sure hasn't made the crew look any rosier. But it's my opinion, and I'm not bashing yours. If you feel you are unfit to fly, don't fly.

1. The crew did not taxi over a lit runway to get to an unlit runway as you suggest. Apparently your vast dispatch experience and skills haven't taught you how to read a simple taxi diagram. Runway 26 (the accident runway) is the first runway you come to on the taxi out. To make matters worse, the usual taxi route to runway 22 was blocked and rerouted, possibly causing further confusion.

2. You obviously have no understanding of circadian rhythm research. It doesn't matter if a crew had 28 hours of off-duty time. What matters is what their entire schedule looks like. If your first day includes a late evening arrival, followed by a late start the next day with only one leg to a long overnight, followed by a 4am wake up call on the 3rd day, then your entire system is a mess. The human body is not designed to deal with such randomness and chaos. A consistent schedule is necessary to provide adequate rest and performance. Do a little research.

3. You're a %#$%ing d0uche-bag.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

No, you are not a conservative...you are an elitist. And after 21 years in aviation (my profile details are not current), my observations of aviation, its members, and yes, customers are well founded.

29 years for me, and neither are mine.

It is YOU who condescends the customers, even to the point of saying it's "well founded"; that makes YOU the elitist.

 

[rausda27]

1st flight of the day checks with a very short taxi, it is easy to see how they may of become distracted.

 

[climbhappy]

ACATerry :
could you clarify the poit that said,
"As for the traveling public, if they want such high safety, then they need to pay for it."

Terry,

this struck a cord with me. Forget what happened and who did it and how. Little cindy lou gets on board with her 12 month old. she knows nothing about airplanes and was on her way to see grandma. Or substitute anyone who has no clue about airline pilot pay. they buy a ticket and somehow they shouldn't expect to live throught the flight and arrive safely? what high level of safety are talking about? The safety that comes from being able to taxi a "fricckin airplane to the correct runway . the one with the lights on. A captain that passed a stressful type ride and has done this thousands of times. Is that a high level of safety?
There was fifty /fifty chance he was going to screw it up if you look at the odds. There were two runways right? And what about being a good FO. Looking at the airport diagram?

Somehow using safety and adding to it different levels or degrees when living is the only level you can ascribe and I'll bet you'll want to rethink that comment. That comment was as disrespectful to those 49 souls and my bantering about who and what the poor chap did in the left seat and allowed to take place on his watch. what about calling in sick?

I say this only to debate the merits of your point about customers paying more iin order to live or be allowed to live for paying more. "Sir , I want to live through this , so I'll take the premium quality ticket. "

 

[G4G5]

It was negligence.

On the part of Comair mgt not to purchase RAAS

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Climbhappy: Great point. (Xpoo also). There are many on this board who watched a few too many Dean Martin movies about airline pilots, and will use every specious argument imaginable to turn this accident into a pay issue. I'm all for more money, but that had nothing to do with our fallen brother's unfortunate mistake.

 

[ReportCanoa]

When pro's sit down to discuss an accident, the first thing 100 percent will admit is that 'it could have been me'. If you're posting to the contrary- well- you know what you aren't.

 

[The Drizzle]

The human body is not designed to deal with such randomness and chaos. A consistent schedule is necessary to provide adequate rest and performance. Do a little research.

this is exactly what made me make the fatigue call, 3 days of changing schedules, battling the wx into SDF last night, and waiting over an hour for a van to the hotel only allowed 5 hours of real rest. they were pissed when i called, but i know i did my part. i have no experience outside of the regionals, but i have a feeling it is just a bit worse at these ranks than above for schedules.

 

[xjlifer]

When pro's sit down to discuss an accident, the first thing 100 percent will admit is that 'it could have been me'. If you're posting to the contrary- well- you know what you aren't.

Bingo...I would not want to fly with one of these.."I would NEVER have done THAT" people.

 

[xjlifer]

When they realized their runway had no lighting but the one they crossed over did, shouldn't a bulb have went off inside someone's head?

PCL_128 beat me to it..but you have obviously never taxied out to 22 if your making that kind of statement....wait...did YOU just make a mistake?

 

[COOPERVANE]

When pro's sit down to discuss an accident, the first thing 100 percent will admit is that 'it could have been me'. If you're posting to the contrary- well- you know what you aren't.

VERY true.

 

[wmuflyguy]

What pissing most of us off is that people come on here and say how the screw screwed up and how they would NEVER do that!!

Listen people make mistakes, sometimes you get away with it and soemtimes you don't. If you do not make mistakes you are a liar.

And I don't want to hear that how their mistakes were very basic, guess what most mistakes are.

Just shutup and stop using this accident as an oppurtunity to make yourself sound superior and that you are a no BS kinda guy.

 

[Motown]

PCL_128 beat me to it..but you have obviously never taxied out to 22 if your making that kind of statement....wait...did YOU just make a mistake?

Without taking XPOO's side in this argument, allow me to explain how I interpreted his comment:

During the take-off roll (not the taxi-out), the pilots crossed over the correct runway that is assumed to have been lit while continuing the take-off roll on the incorrect runway that is assumed to have been unlit.

​

 

[PilotOnTheRise]

If what is being reported is accurate then this Comair captain for whatever reason taxied out onto an unsuitable, dark and unlit runway for which he was not cleared for departure, pushed the throttle forward and attemped to take off.

How exactly did this flight crew do everything they could to provide fully due care and concern to the aircraft and the souls on board?

If the facts reported so far are correct who's fault should the public be viewing this accident as?

Just curious.

I'm referring to the crew doing everything they could to get the airplane off the ground, once they realized what was happening. There is no doubt these pilots made a mistake. I used the wrong word when I said, "negligence", and wasn't referring to the idea they somehow did this on purpose. But, pilot error is to blame, and that does seem evident now. The reason for the error is what really needs to be looked into. Lack of rest, stress, poor signage, lack of an updated airport diagram, etc.

I think a few things that need to change as a result of this accident;

1) ATC should now be required to keep an eye on, and watch each aircraft they give clearance to, takeoff, and land. UNLESS tower obtructions somewhow prohibit view of the runway. In this case, someothing should be looked into as far as cameras put in those places, with monitors on the tower, or something, so there are no "blind" spots. This may be an issue at busier airports, but maybe that is a reason for staffing more ATCers.

2) No clearances should be asked for by the pilots, or given by ATC until the aircraft has come to a stop at the hold short line of the runway, and ATC verifies they are stopped at the correct runway assigned for departure. No more takeoff clearances given while still taxiing, or even still at the gate.

3) This would be an airline thing, but pilots should be required to taxi onto and position the plane on the runway for departure, but come to a stop, verify the heading indicator indicates they are on the correct runway, before blasting off.

That is three things to go through, all of which are simple, having to be missed, in order for this to happen again.