APA's contract opener?

[magrs]

What percentage raise is the APA seeking for the AMR Pilot's?

I got the jist of the QOL issues, but wondered if there is a cold-hard number for hourly pay?

i.e. What is the projected pay increase for a 12 year MD-80 F/O?


Thanks

 

[aa73]

Nothing yet.... I thnk they are still hashing it out.

The biggest thing for us junior folk - more than pay raises - will be the productivity thing/work rules. Right now, we still have pretty decent work rules. If we agree to lines built up to 85hrs with ability to pick up to FARs, can you say STAGNATION? I don't think it would result in more furloughs, but it's gonna slow down the seniority list like you wouldn't believe.

Stay tuned...

73

 

[magrs]

Thanks,

I have heard it was pre-911 $$$ plus 1-3%, but haven't seen that in writing.

 

[aa73]

That's at least what I'm expecting!

 

[80drvr]

Nothing yet.... I thnk they are still hashing it out.

The biggest thing for us junior folk - more than pay raises - will be the productivity thing/work rules. Right now, we still have pretty decent work rules. If we agree to lines built up to 85hrs with ability to pick up to FARs, can you say STAGNATION? I don't think it would result in more furloughs, but it's gonna slow down the seniority list like you wouldn't believe.

Stay tuned...

73

Pretty good work rules, except for the 30% of the pilots on reserve.

 

[aa73]

Pretty good work rules, except for the 30% of the pilots on reserve.

That would change if productivity goes up.. but then we would lose the work rules! Can you say "catch 22".

73

 

[80drvr]

That would change if productivity goes up.. but then we would lose the work rules! Can you say "catch 22".

73

AA's reserve system is just bad, regardless of work rules for lineholders.

 

[AA717driver]

magrs--You are pretty close. TC

 

[magrs]

Tim,

Any cold-hard numbers?

I'd LOVE to see pre-911 numbers at this point!

How about longevity pay for those of us sitting on the sidelines?

 

[ils2minimums]

Tim,

Any cold-hard numbers?

I'd LOVE to see pre-911 numbers at this point!

How about longevity pay for those of us sitting on the sidelines?

Magrs,

Here is the long and short of it. Nobody but the TWA-stacked negotiating committee knows what the APA is looking for as far as salary numbers are concerned. The APA BOD simply haven't stated what their objective is in any meaningful terms. They directly violated the C&B by not putting forth specific numbers in their opener, then they changed the C&B after the fact to match what they'd done at the negotiating table. When all is said and done, Ralph Hunter will have a job at AMR that is equivolent to that of Jeff Brundage. We are about to get screwed again... If you have any doubt about it, go look at the major leverage they just gave away as a side LOA on the China flying...

Here are the openers from APA.

APA'S OPENER:


September 20, 2006
Mr. Gerard Arpey
Chairman and CEO
American Airlines, Inc.
P.O. Box 619616 MD 5624
DFW Airport, TX 75261-9616

Dear Mr. Arpey:

On behalf of the pilots of American Airlines and in accordance with “Section 6” of the Railway Labor Act, we present to you our opening proposal in the negotiations for a new Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA).

American Airlines has successfully navigated from the brink of bankruptcy to profitability thanks in large part to the sacrifices made by AA pilots and other line employees. As we open negotiations, the time has come to provide AA pilots with a return on their investment in our airline.

Our openers - and the specific proposals which will follow - will address both our needs and American Airlines’ legitimate concerns. Our proposals are carefully designed to fix shortcomings in the current CBA and to improve features that work for both the pilots and American Airlines. For example, we propose improvements to scheduling rules that create advantages for both the pilot and the company.

You have stated many times that employees are essential business partners in this airline, and we uphold that obligation through our skill, loyalty and commitment to American’s success. “Section 6” is the perfect time to follow through on that sentiment by negotiating improvements to our pay, benefits and scheduling rules.

While the following pages detail many areas of the CBA we propose to change, our goals can best be grouped into six categories:

• Improved Compensation – APA’s proposals for increases to both our pay rates and other forms of compensation reflect the pilots’ great commitment to the long-term viability of the company. Our pay proposals will allow American Airlines to prosper and grow while providing appropriate and justifiable increases.
• Job Security – American Airlines pilots have a strong interest in a flying career secure from outsourcing and other external threats. APA’s proposals to eliminate the occurrence of pilot furloughs and/or displacements can be accomplished while meeting the legitimate needs of the company.
• Retirement Security – Our pilots made many tough choices in 2003 to preserve the basic structure and health of our retirement program. It is in all stakeholders’ interests for the corporation to keep promises it has already made by ensuring the security of our pilots’ retirement.
• Gain-sharing – APA views gain-sharing programs currently in place as inadequate, ineffective and potentially destructive to an already fragile relationship. Gain-sharing programs that closely align management and pilot interests provide the greatest opportunity for long-term achievement of corporate goals and objectives.
• Investment protection – Our pilots want improved safeguards for the heavy investment we made in 2003. We will be proposing several new concepts to protect the AA pilot force in the event another financial crisis occurs at American Airlines.
• Quality of Life – American Airlines is the largest airline in the United States, yet we lag the industry in many quality of work life issues. Allowing our pilots the opportunity to better tailor their lives around their work creates an atmosphere where the pilots’ energies can best be utilized for the long-term success of American Airlines.

We look forward to working with the company negotiating team on our next CBA. The pilots of American Airlines want a contract founded on fairness; therefore, all our proposals will be based on this concept. Together, we can build a secure and prosperous future for American Airlines and all of its employees.

Sincerely,

/signed/

Captain Ralph J. Hunter
President

RJH/mz
_________________________________________________________________

Again, the opener was intentionally vague and violated the APA's bylaws. The bylaws stated that the openers MUST state specific goals for the negotiations (ex. We want a 47% increase in hourly compensation). The bylaws were changed in the opening minutes of the current BOD meeting (Yes, it's STILL going on...), and the amendment is retroactive to include THIS opener. According to the APA BOD, not setting forth specific goals gives the negotiating committee "increased flexibility"...----

Vague as they may be, these ARE the openers.

 

[magrs]

Thanks,

Again, pre-911 $$$ is the least that APA should ask for!

 

[EA6BDriver]

Having payed absolutely no attention to any of this BS for the last several years, I'm now mildly curious about one thing. What job does Brundage have at AMR?

 

[AA717driver]

ILS2--why is this contract any different than any other at AA? The first time I looked at the Green Book, it scared the crap outta me. There was nothing concrete there.

It's like a DFW friend said years ago--they put nothing in the contract then they write LOA's as time goes on to define the contract. These openers didn't surprise me a bit.

As for the "TWA-stacked" nego committee, I obviously know the individuals. One is a good friend. The other, I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw him.

But for you, that situation is less 'dangerous' than a 'PDP-stacked' committee would be for me.

What APA absolutely HAS to avoid is to become irreversibly divided into two camps (ie. radicals v. pro-company). That's exactly why the TWA MEC came up with the merger commitee we had. That's exactly why the negotiations went the way they did.

EA6B--Brundage is in charge of Employee Oppression at AMR. He's VERY busy.

Magrs--No. But you're REALLY close. TC

 

[aa73]

ILS2--why is this contract any different than any other at AA? The first time I looked at the Green Book, it scared the crap outta me. There was nothing concrete there.

It's like a DFW friend said years ago--they put nothing in the contract then they write LOA's as time goes on to define the contract. These openers didn't surprise me a bit.

As for the "TWA-stacked" nego committee, I obviously know the individuals. One is a good friend. The other, I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw him.

But for you, that situation is less 'dangerous' than a 'PDP-stacked' committee would be for me.

What APA absolutely HAS to avoid is to become irreversibly divided into two camps (ie. radicals v. pro-company). That's exactly why the TWA MEC came up with the merger commitee we had. That's exactly why the negotiations went the way they did.

EA6B--Brundage is in charge of Employee Oppression at AMR. He's VERY busy.

Magrs--No. But you're REALLY close. TC

Unfortunately, TC, APA has always, always been divided into two or more camps. This dates back to the B-scale days. However, I would venture that this is the first time in APA history that such a high percentage of pilots are united in the "pi$$ed off" department. This will hopefully be a good thing.

Brundage is actually an ex ACA pilot who I believe was also active in ALPA. Figures.

-R,
73

 

[ils2minimums]

ILS2--why is this contract any different than any other at AA? The first time I looked at the Green Book, it scared the crap outta me. There was nothing concrete there.

As for the "TWA-stacked" nego committee, I obviously know the individuals. One is a good friend. The other, I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw him.

But for you, that situation is less 'dangerous' than a 'PDP-stacked' committee would be for me.

I agree with you about the green book. It has morphed into a rough set of guidelines rather than the binding contract it is meant to be.

With regard to my statement referenced above, I have a very hard time accepting the premise that we fielded the best negotiating committee possible, no offense intended to your friend. American Airlines has 9 pilot bases and a 5 member negotiating committee. STL is one of the smallest bases and the TWA pilots are a very small percentage of our pilot group, yet the negotiating committee is comprised of 60% STL and 40% TWA? The ability of this committee to negotiate a contract that is not concessionary is questionable and quite frankly, doubtful. Their accomplishments must be viewed throught the prism of the last couple of TWA contracts. This negotiating committee appears to be good at two things; concessions and PBS, the latter of which would be a disaster for this pilot group on the same level as the B-scale.

What about the PDP would be 'dangerous' for you? They are a group of pilots who want substantial improvements in total compensation, improvements in QOL and a union leadership that not mired in corruption and self-serving motives. They are not 'radicals' (whatever that means), and if you think so, I'd like to know what leads you to believe it, other than rumor. If you haven't done so already, I'd suggest that you go to the PDP website and look around at some of the tireless work their pilot advocates have done, and to participate in the Free Speech Zone forum. If you've not been over there and would like to, I'll PM you the URL for their site. Our careers and QOL are being handed to AMR by the leadership of APA, who sees their future not as pilots, but as managers at AMR. At a time when the company is making money, and the top 1000 managers received bonuses totaling $100,000,000, the negotiating committee should be seeking to restore our pay and get our furloughees back. Instead, they're contemplating givebacks through PLI and PBS. Hopefully the upcoming national elections will clean house down in DFW and put some guys in charge who are pilots, not MBA's and management-wannabe's. ALPA did it recently, hopefully the APA membership will do the same thing.

 

[AA717driver]

ils2--I've spent enough time on C&R and have gotten enough PDP emails to know that they wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if CC went away tomorrow.

I'll be more than willing to replace the word "radical" with "hardliner" but I won't water it down any more than that--I was one of the hardliners at TWA for quite a while.

There is certainly a place for the PDP. We've seen what the "kinder, gentler" approach gets with AA. Unfortunately, people like Sammy, Shayman and Pliske make me uneasy. I've seen them before in different uniforms.

I do agree that APA probably doesn't have the best people avilable on many of the committees. The Nego. Comm. is particularly difficult for people to work on because you have to live in DFW most of the time. That limits you to those who do live there or are willing to spend 5 days a week or more away from their families (not that there are a shortage of people willing to do that in this business). TC

 

[Swaayze]

Yes, Brundage was the ACA MEC Chairman for quite some time. He was highly regarded within ALPA and chaired the original do-nothing Scope Committee that had a chance to recommend negotiating standards within ALPA 10 years ago.

 

[magrs]

What is the ballpark date for having a contract agreed upon?

 

[80drvr]

What is the ballpark date for having a contract agreed upon?

2010.