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Anyone fly for Gulfstream out there?
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kilomike
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 155
fixin to land,
I hope I am never on board any one of your flights if you are an airline pilot. If I knew who you were, I'd walk right off!!
I may own a corporate aircraft someday, a small twin most likely, and I'll tell you right now I would not hire someone who bought flight time on a flight involving paying passengers! I'd much prefer a flight instructor who rented a twin to gain hands-on experience since that person has character and can be trusted. Even if I was at an airline, I would feel the same way. Character counts, and buying a job shows obvious lack of character......
I hope I am never on board any one of your flights if you are an airline pilot. If I knew who you were, I'd walk right off!!
I may own a corporate aircraft someday, a small twin most likely, and I'll tell you right now I would not hire someone who bought flight time on a flight involving paying passengers! I'd much prefer a flight instructor who rented a twin to gain hands-on experience since that person has character and can be trusted. Even if I was at an airline, I would feel the same way. Character counts, and buying a job shows obvious lack of character......
I just think that all this name calling stems from lack of information and jealosy. I don't believe these Gulfstream pilots are scabbing, to paraphrase kilomike. (Gulfscab) I think it's wrong to stereotype an entire airilne. I think that many of the slandering comments come from jealosy of seeing someone richer or younger doing something that you really want to do. Why do you care about them? Why don't you worry about yourself. I'm just trying to find the root of the issue, and I feel it is strictly economics.
Kilomike, be careful about throwing the scab term around so loosely. Learn your facts. This airline industry is a little sensitive to that word. Many of these "scabs" as you call them were protecting the freedom you enjoy, in our nation's military.
Many of the PFT'ers come from the military, having flown F-18's, F-16's and need to bridge the gap. There are retired helicopter guys looking for fixed wing time. There are also major airline flight attendants and mechanics building flight time on the side. These PFT places fill a void for people who need it. You obviously don't. Don't knock these professionals by calling them scabs.
You don't have to buy a ticket on any of the US's airlines. You are right; this is your choice.
Kilomike, be careful about throwing the scab term around so loosely. Learn your facts. This airline industry is a little sensitive to that word. Many of these "scabs" as you call them were protecting the freedom you enjoy, in our nation's military.
Many of the PFT'ers come from the military, having flown F-18's, F-16's and need to bridge the gap. There are retired helicopter guys looking for fixed wing time. There are also major airline flight attendants and mechanics building flight time on the side. These PFT places fill a void for people who need it. You obviously don't. Don't knock these professionals by calling them scabs.
You don't have to buy a ticket on any of the US's airlines. You are right; this is your choice.
stingray
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2001
- Posts
- 284
Yes i agree that 121 flying is better then pleasure flying but.
In order to get quality time. you need to have some clue of what they hell is going on. These new pilots that GIA creates are way behind the 8 bal for their position which can create an unsafe enviorment, and every GIA capt knows it.
In order to get quality time. you need to have some clue of what they hell is going on. These new pilots that GIA creates are way behind the 8 bal for their position which can create an unsafe enviorment, and every GIA capt knows it.
bobbysamd
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 5,710
Military pilot hiring
Quote: Many of the PFT'ers come from the military, having flown F-18's, F-16's and need to bridge the gap.
That comment was rich. Unless things have drastically changed in the past few years, fast mover drivers along with other military fixed-wing pilots have always gone the front of the line for consideration at the majors. It is the civilian-only guys and gals who face the uphill battle to be hired at the majors.
Fighter pilots will have maybe 3000 total hours when they separate, with virtually all of it being jet (F-14, F-15, F/A-18, etc. being multiengine jet). Military flight training is a known commodity and the individuals who go through it are a known commodity as well. Pilot groups at the majors are comprised largely of former military pilots. People tend to hire in their own image. Fighter pilots have no "gaps" to bridge.
That comment indeed showed lack of information.
Quote: Many of the PFT'ers come from the military, having flown F-18's, F-16's and need to bridge the gap.
That comment was rich. Unless things have drastically changed in the past few years, fast mover drivers along with other military fixed-wing pilots have always gone the front of the line for consideration at the majors. It is the civilian-only guys and gals who face the uphill battle to be hired at the majors.
Fighter pilots will have maybe 3000 total hours when they separate, with virtually all of it being jet (F-14, F-15, F/A-18, etc. being multiengine jet). Military flight training is a known commodity and the individuals who go through it are a known commodity as well. Pilot groups at the majors are comprised largely of former military pilots. People tend to hire in their own image. Fighter pilots have no "gaps" to bridge.
That comment indeed showed lack of information.
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Snakum
How's your marmott?
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2002
- Posts
- 2,090
"Maybe its because a 0 time person can't be trianed to be a proper FO in 260 or 270hrs"
There are 250-hour 737 FOs in Europe who might disagree. The cadet scheme whereby one is trained from 0 hours for the right seat of an airliner is pretty common over there. I spoke online last year with a 350-hour 757 FO who came up via the cadet program with KLM (if I remember correctly). Check out PPRUNE and you'll find these low-hour FOs are numerous. Are they less professional or safe? I dunno.
But still ........ paying for a passenger ops job? I just dunno. Fixn2Land does open up a few interesting points, distasteful though they may be to some. But it just doesn't seem 'right' somehow. Maybe if I had $20,000 and an invitation I'd feel differently. I would hope not .... but you never know till you're faced with it. What ever blows one's skirt up, I guess.
Minh
(Aspiring corporate geek)
There are 250-hour 737 FOs in Europe who might disagree. The cadet scheme whereby one is trained from 0 hours for the right seat of an airliner is pretty common over there. I spoke online last year with a 350-hour 757 FO who came up via the cadet program with KLM (if I remember correctly). Check out PPRUNE and you'll find these low-hour FOs are numerous. Are they less professional or safe? I dunno.
But still ........ paying for a passenger ops job? I just dunno. Fixn2Land does open up a few interesting points, distasteful though they may be to some. But it just doesn't seem 'right' somehow. Maybe if I had $20,000 and an invitation I'd feel differently. I would hope not .... but you never know till you're faced with it. What ever blows one's skirt up, I guess.
Minh
(Aspiring corporate geek)
stingray
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2001
- Posts
- 284
Its all about putting an ass in the right seat, doing it the cheapest way possible and if they can get them to pay for it, hell that even makes it better to them.
Saftey and expierence obviously doesn't matter in this part of the decision making process, with whatever company that puts somebody with such low time and expierence in a pilots seat in these types aircraft or more complex aircraft.
I wonder why it is that you even need 500hrs to fly single engine VFR 135.
There is an obvious gap in the training process here which is not being met.
"I know a few have made it through but"
To pilots thinking about going to GIA then to an alpa union airline. What do you think will happen (to some of you) if at your first ALPA union airline interview, you are being asked by the older senior union pilots about your flying career at GIA, then they realize you knowingly worked for and promoted an airlined owned and operated by a scab?
Food for thought
Saftey and expierence obviously doesn't matter in this part of the decision making process, with whatever company that puts somebody with such low time and expierence in a pilots seat in these types aircraft or more complex aircraft.
I wonder why it is that you even need 500hrs to fly single engine VFR 135.
There is an obvious gap in the training process here which is not being met.
"I know a few have made it through but"
To pilots thinking about going to GIA then to an alpa union airline. What do you think will happen (to some of you) if at your first ALPA union airline interview, you are being asked by the older senior union pilots about your flying career at GIA, then they realize you knowingly worked for and promoted an airlined owned and operated by a scab?
Food for thought
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bobbysamd
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 5,710
Low-time FOs
You can train someone to be an FO on big iron in relatively low time. I know; I worked in two programs that did it, was associated with a third such program briefly, and interviewed for a job in a fourth, and met with a person about a job in a fifth. I worked for MAPD, which trained pilots for regional airlines.
Alitalia is the program I know the best. I instructed in that contract program at FSI ten years ago. We received the syllabus directly from the Alitalia training school in Alghero and adapted it under close training captain scrutiny to our Cadets and Seminoles. Not a second of the program is wasted. It progresses logically. We received students who earned their PPLs in Italy. We trained them for their U.S. Commercial-Instrument-Multis using Alitalia line and LOFT procedures. They returned to Italy for advanced training in Cheyennes. They would then be assigned to the line as DC-9 FOs at about 500 hours or so.
Lufthansa's program at ATCA in Goodyear, Arizona was similar. So was the program at IFTA in Bakersfield, which is an ATCA clone. JAL's program at IASCO in Napa was similar. Those students took advanced training in Kingair 90s. Some of these JAL grads went directly to L-1011's, I believe.
All of these programs work. It helps that the students have never set foot in an airplane and are hand-picked. They have to meet standards during each flight. You get a quality result at the end. Compare it to military UPT.
You can't compare these programs to Gulfstream, or Mesa or Comair. Yeah, I'm beginning to think, too, that this has been flamebait.
You can train someone to be an FO on big iron in relatively low time. I know; I worked in two programs that did it, was associated with a third such program briefly, and interviewed for a job in a fourth, and met with a person about a job in a fifth. I worked for MAPD, which trained pilots for regional airlines.
Alitalia is the program I know the best. I instructed in that contract program at FSI ten years ago. We received the syllabus directly from the Alitalia training school in Alghero and adapted it under close training captain scrutiny to our Cadets and Seminoles. Not a second of the program is wasted. It progresses logically. We received students who earned their PPLs in Italy. We trained them for their U.S. Commercial-Instrument-Multis using Alitalia line and LOFT procedures. They returned to Italy for advanced training in Cheyennes. They would then be assigned to the line as DC-9 FOs at about 500 hours or so.
Lufthansa's program at ATCA in Goodyear, Arizona was similar. So was the program at IFTA in Bakersfield, which is an ATCA clone. JAL's program at IASCO in Napa was similar. Those students took advanced training in Kingair 90s. Some of these JAL grads went directly to L-1011's, I believe.
All of these programs work. It helps that the students have never set foot in an airplane and are hand-picked. They have to meet standards during each flight. You get a quality result at the end. Compare it to military UPT.
You can't compare these programs to Gulfstream, or Mesa or Comair. Yeah, I'm beginning to think, too, that this has been flamebait.
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