Anybody for the Age 60 Change Happen to have children who are pilots?

[Hamburger]

I've posed this question before and have not heard from anyone in the situation.

I'm curious...Anybody for the change out there happen to have children that are regional or new hire major pilots?

What do you say to them when you advocate your position to change the retirement age?
I envision it to be:

"Well son, I know you followed in my footsteps, and it's the hope of all parents that their children prosper and have as good of or better life than they had. I know you want to provide a good life for your wife and my grandchildren. I know you've really slugged it out with low paying jobs for a lot of years, paying your dues so that someday you can have the kind of job and paycheck I did when you were young.

The thing is, you and your family are going to have to add another five years to that number because I still want more. I'm sure you understand, you are nowhere near as talented or deserving a pilot as I was at your age, (how can you take yourself seriously as a pilot? you fly an RJ and listen to an ipod!)You really shouldn't feel entitled to anything. I'm almost ashamed that my son is a whiner that wants to have the same opportunities in his career that he watched me enjoy as he was growing up."

 

[luckytohaveajob]

The second generation pilot does not think independently from the first.

 

[Flash]

How about "gee son, I just shelled out $100 k plus for your education and flight lessons to get you where you are and your poor old man needs another couple of years of income to pay off those bills. Thank you for understanding""

 

[roughneck]

They used to have children, but I think they ate their young.

 

[Nindiri]

I plan to retire early and sponge off my children.

 

[Huck]

They used to have children, but I think they ate their young.

Post of the year.

 

[Dan Roman]

How about "gee son, I just shelled out $100 k plus for your education and flight lessons to get you where you are and your poor old man needs another couple of years of income to pay off those bills. Thank you for understanding""

Well said. It's hard to believe that anyone could complain about a parent wanting to fly to age 65 because the retirement package they were promised got jerked out from under them after they paid all that money for their kid to learn to fly. If I was in my twenties and my Dad had just paid for my education and flight training and than lost his retirement, I would be hoping and praying he could have the chance to keep flying if he needed to. The sense of entitlement the original poster has is galling.
An RJ pilot worried about age 60?? Since when does a job at a regional airline entitle you to move on to a larger carrier? If your an RJ pilot you are NOT at an airline effected by the rule and it's none of your business what the pilots at an airline that is effected do. You are not entitled to a job at SWA, UAL, DAL, Fed EX, etc etc just because you work at a regional airline. You may or may not make it to a larger airline, you may or may not even pass the first interview IF you do get called for an interview, it's none of your business until you work for an airline that is effected.
What's next, student pilots telling their flight instructor he'll have to quit once the student gets his ratings because he is taking up the job he needs to build up his experience?

 

[CFIT]

If you were any father at all you would have convinced them into becoming something productive and respectful, like say, a plumber or a sanitation engineer.

 

[Huck]

You are not entitled to a job at SWA, UAL, DAL, Fed EX, etc etc just because you work at a regional airline.

I'm guessing your attitude was a little different when you were sweating in that old Dash 7......

 

[Dan Roman]

I'm guessing your attitude was a little different when you were sweating in that old Dash 7......

Actually no. That's why I'm blown away at the attitude of some RJ guys that think they are entitled to move up. I worked in the old Allegheny Commuter System. I would never have thought Allegheny or the Allegheny ALPA owed me any consideration. We were fling Shorts at the time and mainline Allegheny started flying Nords to put some of their furloughed guys back to work. I couldn't imagine whinning about "who's flying that is" It was their deal and they should do whatever they wanted. I just felt it was my responsibility to move up and kept applying till I got the job I wanted.

 

[Daddy]

Did you walk uphill to school both ways?
Just stirring the pot...nuthin personal

 

[Huck]

I just felt it was my responsibility to move up and kept applying till I got the job I wanted.

Come on now, Whistlin' Dan (hell of a username, by the way), if you were putting out resumes back in the day and this age 65 sh!t had come down you'd be as mad as the rest of us.

Just like I'll join the pro-65 crowd if I can squeak through an upgrade before the music stops. It's all whose ox is getting gored....

 

[CRAZY LEGS]

I've posed this question before and have not heard from anyone in the situation.

I'm curious...Anybody for the change out there happen to have children that are regional or new hire major pilots?

My old man lost two corporate jobs and drug his family halfway around the world to pay the bills. He did whatever it took to provide for us and managed to put all five of his kids through school. My two older brothers and I are all pilots, two at corporate flight departments and one at a major airline, and none of us would dream of asking our dad to get out of his seat because he had a birthday.

He has offered to leave so one of his sons (anti-nepotism) can have his job. No thanks. Fly as long as you want to pop. You've earned it, you put up with the bulls... and helped to pave a better path for those pilots hired in after you.

 

[Dan Roman]

sorry mistaken double post.

 

[Dan Roman]

Come on now, Whistlin' Dan (hell of a username, by the way), if you were putting out resumes back in the day and this age 65 sh!t had come down you'd be as mad as the rest of us.

Just like I'll join the pro-65 crowd if I can squeak through an upgrade before the music stops. It's all whose ox is getting gored....

I do see your point, Like most issues, it's not black and white.
The way I see it, it is what it is. Everyone's career got extended 5 yrs.
I've still got my retirement (for now, what transpired over the last few years proves NONE of us are safe) and don't particularly want to keep flying past 60 (I'm 52). Working doesn't bring home that much more than my retirement income, if I want more money, I would be better off collecting on my DB and working somewere else. But that's me, I have more concern for the thousands of guys (many of them friends of mine)who had thought they had a secure retirement and are now in there 50's looking at pennies on the dollar for the last 20-30 years of their life. There are some real horror stories out there and the idea that "they made big bucks and should have been better prepared" is naive and foolish.
I have more sympathy for them than someone who wants to hurry up and upgrade. Nothing personal, but your better off in the right seat at FedEX than some poor UAL, USAir etc, guy in his 50's that lost most of his retirement and doesn't have time to save and earn compound interest on his savings for long enough to do him any good.

BTW Huck, you saw the movie, clearly, it was a triumph of experience over youth!!

 

[jimcav]

I do see your point, Like most issues, it's not black and white.
The way I see it, it is what it is. Everyone's career got extended 5 yrs.
I've still got my retirement (for now, what transpired over the last few years proves NONE of us are safe) and don't particularly want to keep flying past 60 (I'm 52). Working doesn't bring home that much more than my retirement income, if I want more money, I would be better off collecting on my DB and working somewere else. But that's me, I have more concern for the thousands of guys (many of them friends of mine)who had thought they had a secure retirement and are now in there 50's looking at pennies on the dollar for the last 20-30 years of their life. There are some real horror stories out there and the idea that "they made big bucks and should have been better prepared" is naive and foolish.
I have more sympathy for them than someone who wants to hurry up and upgrade. Nothing personal, but your better off in the right seat at FedEX than some poor UAL, USAir etc, guy in his 50's that lost most of his retirement and doesn't have time to save and earn compound interest on his savings for long enough to do him any good.

BTW Huck, you saw the movie, clearly, it was a triumph of experience over youth!!

I see both sides of the issue but you articulate your point much better than the origional poster. That's for sure.

 

[Fins Up]

Two points:

1. If you put yourself in the poor house to pay for your kids' education, you are an idiot. Any investment counselor would advise you not to do that. Your kids have a lot more years to make money than you do.

2. A captain I was talking to in MCO yesterday was very afraid of the age restriction moving to 65 because he is sure his loving employer (I forget whether American or Delta) is going to penalize his retirement if he doesn't stick it out until 65. Not what he was planning.

 

[Huck]

BTW Huck, you saw the movie, clearly, it was a triumph of experience over youth!!

But note that ol' Dan was in the right seat.....

 

[Dan Roman]

But note that ol' Dan was in the right seat.....

Touche'!!

 

[ShyFlyGuy]

My dad's 60 in 12 months. Bad news for him, since he had his ESOP turn to dirt and his pension flushed down the toilet. If I could do 5 more years flying with Capt. Jackass just so he could get five more years to save up for retirement without a pension, I would! He put everything into that ESOP and maxed out his pension because he was late in the game (he's only got 24 years in at his beloved company), but it's all disappeared! How selfish would it be for me to think that I deserve his job and he shouldn't get 5 more of the company's best-paying years?

At least I've got the example they've made of him to learn my lesson. Never believe management. Don't ever invest in your own company (unless you know something no one else knows). Diversify, diversify, diversify.

I'm sure the party line is drawn with the families of UAL, US, DAL, and NWA on one side and AA, CAL, and UPS/FedEx on the other. Bottom line is that 65 ain't easy for anyone, but it's fair for everyone.

Shy

 

[roughneck]

He put everything into that ESOP and maxed out his pension because he was late in the game (he's only got 24 years in at his beloved company), but it's all disappeared

That is aweful. If he does get a second chance (age 65), it is your duty as a son to make sure he gets a finacial advisor this time around. Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me.

 

[SteelerMan]

Dan, it AFFECTS everybody, whether or not you work at a commuter. They have guys retiring too. If they aren't entitled to move up to a better job after working at a crap job for x number of years, then why are you entitled to work five years longer because your pension was jerked from you??? You make no sense to me.

 

[Patriot328]

Bottom line is that 65 ain't easy for anyone, but it's fair for everyone.

Shy

Yep, including those furloughed people on the street for another five years....

 

[pipe]

65 Ain't Fair For Anyone. There's Only Winners And Losers.

Pipe

 

[Widow's Son]

I am a Captain at a major, and I have a son at a Regional. I support changing age 60 but have worked very hard and planned very carefully to be retired long before 60. Career progression by age, my son is several years ahead of the game than I was at his age. Good for him. I think he will have a bright future regardless of what happens to the retirement age.

My son understands that an improvement to the industry is ultimately beneficial for all of us. He also understands that the more options one has, the better.

I would hate to have to explain to my son the logic of supporting a situation wherein pilots from other countries or American pilots flying for foreign carriers were legal to fly in our own country's airspace while American pilots flying for US Airlines were not.

 

[Huck]

My son understands that an improvement to the industry is ultimately beneficial for all of us.

I'm curious, WS, and I mean this with all due respect - how do you see this as an improvement to the industry?

I really want to know. I think the end result is a five year shift to the right of the average career. Doesn't sound good - from the time value of money perspective, as well as this: what are the young pilots supposed to do for five years to fill the gap before their first real job? Teach all those non-existent students out there?

 

[Widow's Son]

>>I'm curious, WS, and I mean this with all due respect - how do you see this as an improvement to the industry?<<

That's easy. Our occupations are some of the finest and most desirable that our economy produces. Having the option and flexibility to benefit from that occupation for a longer period of time makes for a more rewarding career, hence, a better industry.

It will also be an improvement to not have US pilots flying for US carriers being second class citizens in our own country.

 

[airfogey]

What Dan Roman posted was right on, great user name. wish I'd thought of it. I have two sons in college and flying training myself.
Airfogey

 

[Dan Roman]

Thanks,
I think Hobie Wheeler is still available!

 

[Hamburger]

I would hate to have to explain to my son the logic of supporting a situation wherein pilots from other countries or American pilots flying for foreign carriers were legal to fly in our own country's airspace while American pilots flying for US Airlines were not.

The thing is.... age 65 doesn't prevent "pilots from other countries or American pilots flying for foreign carriers" from taking his job. It is YOU who are taking the work from him...
Don't try to pretend that you staying at work somehow closes the floodgates for foreign labor. It is YOU who is doing the work that YOUR SON should be doing. The Captains that preceded you retired with dignity at 60, therefore opening the Captain slot for you to upgrade.

Now you want an extra FIVE YEARS(!)of employment knowing that it means an extra FIVE YEARS of your own son and your own grandchildren living with less than half the pay you had at his age.

That's just Poor Form.
Denying your own children access to the same opportunities and lifestyle that you were able to provide for them while they were growing up is the opposite of the American Dream. You are supposed to shun selfishness to the point that you wish better for your children...