Any SWA or Airtran pilots see recent SLI at Mesaba/Colgan/Pinnacle?

[GuppyWN]

I just had one of those new Chicago style hotdogs from Sonic.

Pretty damn good.

Gup

 

[RLAblows]

I just had one of those new Chicago style hotdogs from Sonic.

Pretty damn good.

Gup

I told you. Damn tasty! Excellent shakes also.

 

[SWA/FO]

paging PLC paging PCL? Ouch.

 

[texman]

And it's Herb who created the culture. Herb=management.

Mr. toole,

I will say that is funny right there! You folks will soon be educated. One question, who wanted SWAPA to be formed?

 

[On Your Six]

PCL your professional insights are endless. Thank you for sharing that Airtran is an exceptional airline to work for, and how it is equal to SWA. I had a few friends who went to Airtran from ASA great people to work with. Your persistence is wearing all the SWA pilots down, please stop harming us with equality, we already have to work within a PC environment. Please allow us the privilege of our soap box.

An arbitrator like Block doesn't seem to care about which airline is better to work for. Colgan might be one of the worst regionals to work for, but he mixed their Captains in with Mesaba and Pinnacle. Doesn't seem to matter to him, and guys like him may decide your future seniority.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

PCL, I really shouldn't even argue qualifications with a guy who paid Gulfstream to warm a seat and accumulate flight time. Yet here I type...

When you were hired, I KNOW there were pilots hired with less than the numbers your put above. Over the years, I'm sure y'all have hired some very qualified pilots. At the same time though, y'all continued to hire pilots with less than AAI's lower published mins.

Look at your list in 11/06. There is a kid who was 22 freakin' years old when hired! Not even old enough for an ATP. I'm sure he was some check airmen's son. Actually, I know he was. As was the guy one number down on that same list. Neither had any turb PIC. That's a fact. At SWA, NOBODY gets in without plenty of turb pic.

This info could be meaningless in the longrun, but DO NOT pretend AAI hasn't hired pilots with little qualifications from day 1 to very recently.

What's interesting is that 22 year old pilot at Airtran might upgrade before you and SWA/FO, and could be senior to you guys for more than 40 more years. And he didn't have to pay for his type rating! Ouch.



OYS

 

[dicko]

There is a kid who was 22 freakin' years old when hired! Not even old enough for an ATP. I'm sure he was some check airmen's son. Actually, I know he was. As was the guy one number down on that same list. Neither had any turb PIC. That's a fact. At SWA, NOBODY gets in without plenty of turb PIC.

You have just deeply embarrassed yourself, along with any SWA pilot that you are associated with.

One of their fathers is currently training your management and check airmen. Both of them are well respected, as are their sons. If you want to get as personal as attacking peoples sons; perhaps you should get the details right first.

Has SWA ever hired a pilot who didn't meet the published mins ?

 

[Dolce]

OYS,

Again, pissed you made a bad decision and your career is nothing like the one you thought you'd have by this point. By the way, how's that 50k a year in pay working out for you? By the time you retire, you may be a Captain on the RJ your company is buying! I bet I'm a little more accurate in my predictions than your are...clown act!

D

 

[Dolce]

Dicko,

Are they the Eastern scabs which work in your training center?

D

 

[waveflyer]

I'm confused General- that looks hypocritical-

WHY are widebodies and larger a/c given seniority preferences?? Because of the experience of it? So a pilot who gets to eat sundaes over the Atlantic gets to be senior? Why does that entitle you to seniority? The high paying 3-day trips? Or is it the historical pay?

Well from APC- your widebody rates are $217 and $208/Flt hour. 757 rate are $182 - what would you say most of your pilots turn that into/year.

Well I don't know 1lazy capt who didn't make at least $220k with our tfp formulas. And APC converts us to $210k roughly.

And btw-Those who say $$ doesn't matter have either never been broke and hungry or forgot. It is a terrible person who says money doesn't matter.

Sorry Gen- but I think you are forgetting that almost every swa pilot agrees that a staple is not right. Some have wet dreams about it but aren't going to go crazy- - you make your arguments and we're not far apart at all- I looked at the award from pinnacolaba- and I come up with the same list using their categories of A/C-
#1 AT guy will go around date of hire- then a formula that ratio'd everyone down leaving anywhere from 200-600 FOs at the bottom of the snapshot- no bump, no flush. What's unfair about that?

Wave,

I'll take a shot at this. If Delta had bought Airtran, I would think any arbitrator would have looked at the differences in the operations. They would look at the sizes of the planes, the difference in routes, and the number of pilots. Longevity would be a factor (years of service), too. If you look at the NIC award for USAir, he put the top 500 on the combined list as all East pilots because they flew INTL routes with A330s and 767s, both larger planes than America West's 757s. Delta is a lot larger than USAir, and there are more plane differences too, with even larger planes doing INTL routes. I would assume, using that recent precedent, that a large chunk of senior Delta pilots would have been put on top of a list, and then it would have maybe gone relative or a ratio from there. That is just a guess based off of the recent NIC award. Maybe Ty Webb (737 Capt) could have been placed somewhere in the Middle of the Delta 737 Captain list, which is probably mid level Captain seniority. He probably wouldn't have been blended in with any 757/767 Capts or above, and the junior 757/767 Captain in the fleet would also probably be placed above that 737 group. Just a guess there. The NIC award, putting the top 500 all from one group that had larger planes that flew INTL routes, really did set the bar.

Now when it comes to SWA and Airtran, your missions are the same, and the planes are very close to the same size. Airtran does fly International flights, (and allnighters), but isn't as large as Southwest. Southwest is more profitable, but Airtran isn't a money loser, and not in BK like Frontier was. That would mean there could be a ratio. But, pay doesn't seem very important to arbitrators (look at Colgan vs Pinnacle and Mesaba), and that might be significant in your case against Airtran. SLI's aren't fun, but they must be fair if you want to fly with these people eventually and not end up like USAir--a divided group. That will hurt you in future negotiations and that famous culture will just go away.

All of the above is speculation, of course.



Bye Bye--General Lee