Any other pay cuts @ Netjest Inc?

[Hawkered]

Yeah...you're right! It's all my fault!

BWAHAHAAA!

 

[dime line]

Hey you said it

 

[netjetwife]

Sweet F-16, it's time for a reality check for you!

You win some...you lose some. The bottom line, and I mean that...THE BOTTOM LINE... is that the company can make more money by having your hubby go and sell floor tile and put a new hire in his seat.


Actually, it would be INSTALLING floor tile AND other contractor/remodeling jobs..if he wanted...OR managing a Home Depot. When enough pilots stand up for fair wages , as my "hubby" is, then the exploitation will stop. You don't get what you don't ask for!

 

[dukeofdub]

Exploitation - now I have heard it all

When enough pilots stand up for fair wages , as my "hubby" is, then the exploitation will stop. You don't get what you don't ask for!

What exploitation? Is your hubby forced to fly? Do they foce him to do anything? If he is that unhappy he can make a vote by doing the construction job and giving you that life which you believe you so richly deserve.

 

[Hawkered]

Netjet Wife:

We have a difference of opinion, it's nothing personal, I just don't see how you're doing any good here.

 

[potrack]

30k a year to work there? What does Capt top out at? Please tell me something over 90??

 

[Live4flyng]

30k a year to work there? What does Capt top out at? Please tell me something over 90??

Ummm, nope try $81,000 at 10 years. It's actually a pay cut. If you were hired today, you would start off as a first officer making $33,500 1st year, $34,760 2nd year, $ 36,020 by 3, and $37,280 by 4. Assuming you would make captain at year 5, you would jump up to a whole $69,000. Topping out at $81,000 for a class 2 airplane which is probably all you could hold. IT SUCKS, it's a backwards move and anyone who votes YES is self serving and dividing the pilot group. VOTE NO and let the chips fall where they may.

P.S. the pay scale above is based on the T/A, not the current contract. If you started today, you could make $27,000 by 1, $28,000 by 2, and $29,000 by 3 as a First Officer.

 

[LXJ31]

I should probably stay out of this but... I do not understand all the handwringing and insults over this. The TA is what it is, either vote it in or reject it; all this wind and noise trying to convince each other one way or another is all wasted energy. You all trust each other enough to fly around all week in jets; you ought to trust each other enough to each make their own decision. Calling and emailing people is probably about as welcome as a visit from a Jehovah's Witness.


If you do strike, it will be a unique situation. It certainly has a different dynamic than if airline pilots or city bus drivers walk. Do this best you can. Some of these posters are right, owners would bail if there were a big disruption among the quality and continuity of flight crews.



"We agree one one thing. The glory days are over - because of guys like you."

I gotta admit, this one has me puzzled. How is it the fault of people like Hawkered? You don't suppose that the are about a hundred other factors involved? Why do you think that we don't get around in horse-drawn buggies anymore?

The glory days may be over but it has much more to do with de-regulation, widely available training and modern aircraft design (read: they are easier to operate.) But doesn't the consumer benefit? Pretty much anyone with a W-2 can buy an airline ticket these days. Years ago, one had to be pretty well off. Small towns get plenty of airline service; big cities have flights going everywhere at all hours 7 days a week. I'd say its a good thing.

 

[netjetwife]

About those calls and emails.....

I should probably stay out of this but... I do not understand all the handwringing and insults over this. The TA is what it is, either vote it in or reject it; all this wind and noise trying to convince each other one way or another is all wasted energy. You all trust each other enough to fly around all week in jets; you ought to trust each other enough to each make their own decision. Calling and emailing people is probably about as welcome as a visit from a Jehovah's Witness.

As one of those making phone calls and emailing people, I'd like to provide you with an answer because your hunch isn't correct. As to the question of how welcome the calls and emails are , the response has been overwhelmingly positive. I've even had pilots take the time to return my (message) call from the road while they're on tour. Most of the calls become lengthy conversations and I'm always thanked for taking the iniative to offer support. The VERY FEW fence-sitters and/or yes voters still liked the fact that I have reached out to the families in our gateway, even if we disagree on the TA.

The other wives and pilots making calls have reported the same experiences.

Why work so hard to "get out the vote"? The fact that you are posting and asking questions here is proof that you believe in staying informed. Unfortunately, not all the pilots at NJA share that concern. Their ignorance of the issues and ramifications, thereof, could doom many of us to a life of "working poor" and/or subpar wages, unacceptable work rules that negatively impact the pilots and their families, and a real risk of job security. I have called/spoken with single pilots that had never thought to consider the difficulties of raising a family under the conditions of the TA. Raising the awareness of the pilots in regards to all of the issues covered by the TA, will lead to a better informed voting process. To quote you....."I'd say it's a good thing".
.



"

 

[potrack]

33,500 first year F/O pay.....

For argument sake, what does a first year Flight Attendant at DAL, AA, UAL, CAL, or SWA get paid???

How about even Skywest or Eagle?

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

I don't know why anyone would be saying the 'glory days are over'...us in the corporate / charter worlds are making bigger bank than ever! Benifits are up and they're starting to give us some serious hard time-off.

From what I've heard and read, fractional is a way better gig for some folks, however, they need to pay you guys industry standards.

We're all on the same side and should stick together. Whatever you all decide, we're (I'm) with 'ya.

 

[Number$Cruncher]

I don't know why anyone would be saying the 'glory days are over'...us in the corporate / charter worlds are making bigger bank than ever! Benifits are up and they're starting to give us some serious hard time-off.

Maybe y'all should be looking for better work in the Part 91 corporate ranks?

 

[LXJ31]

Well, I do not work for Netjets so I am not posting in the interest of staying informed. But I will reiterate my point about how on one hand, your husband trusts his fellow crew enough to fly safely around the country for a week but on the other you don't seem to trust them enough to make their own decisions. I too would be polite if a get-out-the-vote type busybody called my house regarding the Presidential election, but would keep it brief and resent that other people felt I was too ignorant to decide who my vote would go to or to even find my way to the polling location.

But I will say this, the more money Netjets pilots can make is good for my bottom line as well.

 

[netjetwife]

Setting the record straight---

Well, I do not work for Netjets so I am not posting in the interest of staying informed. But I will reiterate my point about how on one hand, your husband trusts his fellow crew enough to fly safely around the country for a week but on the other you don't seem to trust them enough to make their own decisions. I too would be polite if a get-out-the-vote type busybody called my house regarding the Presidential election, but would keep it brief and resent that other people felt I was too ignorant to decide who my vote would go to or to even find my way to the polling location.

But I will say this, the more money Netjets pilots can make is good for my bottom line as well.

LXJ31, apparently, you didn't read my post too closely---I also call to offer support-- or perhaps I need to elaborate. My husband and I, along with help from 2 other couples, are organizing our gateway (Colorado/80 pilots) into a social/support structure for the pilots and their families. Therefore my calls have a dual purpose, and have been met (whether you choose to believe it , or not) with a SINCERELY warm and WELCOME response. Furthermore, the fact that busy pilots have been CALLING ME in response to the message I left, is evidence that my idea of reaching out to the NJ pilots/families in our area is being returned with much more than "politeness".

You need to give up your preconceived notion of me---it doesn't fit!

Question: What is your explanation for the fact that families turned out for a get together picnic, and are planning to attend our upcoming pot luck dinner??

I do agree with the premise that "A rising tide lifts all boats."

 

[LXJ31]

My God you are condescending, do your realize that?

Get as much money as you guys can, its good for everyone.

Enjoy the picnic.

 

[netjetwife]

I too would be polite if a get-out-the-vote type busybody called my house regarding the Presidential election, but would keep it brief and resent that other people felt I was too ignorant to decide who my vote would go to or to even find my way to the polling location.

Calling and emailing people is probably about as welcome as a visit from a Jehovah's Witness..

LXJ31, you are calling ME condescending?! Read your own posts directed at me, totally misstating the situation! What was it based on? Certainly not the truth. I believe in standing up for myself and setting the record straight. If more pilots were better at doing that then their salaries wouldn't be so low, perhaps? They definitely have to take a stand at NJA. The MEC failed them miserably and are long overdue for being called on it.

Thanks, we've already had a picnic, the Pot Luck Dinner is next...


A rising tide lifts all boats.

 

[CatYaaak]

Free beer?....a WB effigy-burning?.....all the NetJetWives performing "Vote This TA Down" Dances in suspended Go-Go cages?

 

[CRAWDADDY]

Thanks, we've already had a picnic, the Pot Luck Dinner is next...

.

No offence, but what's plan B if this turkey actually passes? I mean I'm sure you are all good cooks; I hate to miss the opportunity for some good food.

And before you say "it won't pass" my post office said they can't guarantee my metered ballot won't be returned.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

I'm hankering for a pre-coup buffet.

 

[netjetwife]

No offence, but what's plan B if this turkey actually passes? I mean I'm sure you are all good cooks; I hate to miss the opportunity for some good food.

And before you say "it won't pass" my post office said they can't guarantee my metered ballot won't be returned.[/QUOTE


Voting instructions are on the board. Didn't your post office offer to update the metered stamp for you--most do--in fact that is how the problem came to light.

I expect NJA to lose a lot of good pilots/employees IF the TA passed. Many will move on to something else rather than work under this POS TA. Whether flying or using other skills, they'd be voting with their feet.

 

[Live4flyng]

I expect NJA to lose a lot of good pilots/employees IF the TA passed.

Stanby for the "Where are you going to go?" arguments. At $27K/year, most can't afford to stay.

 

[netjetwife]

It goes beyond just the money. Assuming the TA passed WITHOUT FRAUD--a big concern---many pilots that were vocal and active in the fight would have a hard time working beside those that had failed to standup for themselves, and by their cowardice (or selfishness) had condemned many families to a life of poor job security (weak scope), poor pay, and unfriendly/unsafe work rules.

 

[flyingcpa]

It goes beyond just the money. Assuming the TA passed WITHOUT FRAUD--a big concern



Let me see if I have the facts.
1) netjets pays below market wages
2) management is untrustworthy. (lying scumbags)
3) The union isnt to be trusted (lying scumbags)

Doesn't you husband have more self-respect than to work for such a outfit? Even if the pilots demand and get more money and work rules wont all the other problems still be there? I would not work for a company that I thought this little of. well, maybe I would but it would take tons of money. oh ya, thats what your after. Cant buy self-repect, have him fire up the resume. Get a job that he can hold his head up high again and get market wages.

 

[netjetwife]

Maybe my posts were too subtle for you? Try reading between the lines.... How do you know he hasn't already sent off his resume? However, if / when the TA is voted down the pilots will be able to get things right for a change. Amazing what good leadership can do for a group. The pilots voting this TA down will be showing much self-respect and willingness to make a stand. A cohesive unit like that is one that any pilot should be proud to fly with, including yourself.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

If the financial situation was a dire as the company is implying they could go a long way towards establishing some credibility by cutting the pay of the non bargaining employees (EJM, EJI etc) overnight. And no contract allows them to do just that.

 

[philo beddoe]

Maybe this has been brought up before, but couldn't FSI charge NJA full-pop rates, allowing NJA to show greater financial stress than really exists?

Also, what bout other fixed expenses - hotels, rental cars,
INSURANCE maybe??
Any of these in the Buffet portfolio?

 

[netjetwife]

Maybe this has been brought up before, but couldn't FSI charge NJA full-pop rates, allowing NJA to show greater financial stress than really exists?

Also, what bout other fixed expenses - hotels, rental cars,
INSURANCE maybe??
Any of these in the Buffet portfolio?

Our pilots can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I read on their board that FSI DID increase rates substantially as was the insurance which one of our guys tracked down....all the way.......well, you GUESSED IT!


Excuse me, Lord W, but the company has already lost ALL credibility by wasting tens of thousands of $$ overnighting 2 letters (of intimadation) and 1 DVD Salespitch in the past few weeks. And to me, personally, 1 BOOMERANG! That being the DVD package that I marked "REFUSED" which promptly returned.

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]I wonder how many of us got them back? Why don't they just include their instructions?

1) Open mouth as wide as possible.
2) Insert propaganda..aka..DVD
3) Close mouth.
4) Swallow.

Note: May be necessary to use hands to "force" DVD
down recipient's throat.[/font]



[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]

"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." Benjamin Franklin[/font]

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Excuse me, Lord W, but the company has already lost ALL credibility by wasting tens of thousands of $$ overnighting 2 letters (of intimadation) and 1 DVD Salespitch in the past few weeks. And to me, personally, 1 BOOMERANG! That being the DVD package that I marked "REFUSED" which promptly returned.

Wifey, don't take offence. I'm in complete agreement with you. I wish I could have refused the CD but it was in the middle of the weed patch I call a lawn whe I got home. Not opened yet, maybe I'll take it back to DHL.

As to credibility, why is it that the bargaining employees have to take it in the pants. Except for a few letters threatening F/Os to upgrade, who's heard from Santulli in the past three years? Now he sends us videos????

Point is, allegedly our modest profits are more than offset by EJI and Europe. They don't need concessions from them because they don't have a contract; they can just take. So, before you (EJ,Inc.)expect me to give a serious hearing to all your financial woes, start cleaning up the other parts of the house. The MEC said this contract is the first step towards fixing the company.
Why is it the FIRST???

 

[netjetwife]

No offense taken.

I should have used a ......in my post, I was just inserting some sarcastic humor. Actually, I felt that you had stated the case quite clearly--the company didn't demand concessions from those they more easily could have. And I STILL say that the MEC should have insisted on looking at managements' wages, as well. What pilot doesn't believe the company is too top-heavy? How many 14 hour days do the VPs pull??

The only reason the bargaining employees have been "taking it in the pants" is because they didn't demand changes when their so-called leaders failed to lead. Going back to the table with TRUE leaders supported with an ACTIVE pilotforce will make a huge difference. Simple truth--you act like a "doormat", you get stepped on!

You are right to question the MEC labeling the TA as the "first step" in fixing the problems faced by the company. Though, as the # 1 frac company, their problems can't be all that bad. That said, as far as looking for improvement goes, the MEC should have said the TA was the EASIEST step. They clearly lack the guts and motivation to tackle the harder issues of mis-placed priorities and waste that are the REAL problems. The ONLY thing "first" about the TA is the numerical order it will hold as we vote down it, and all other unacceptable offers, from the company.

On a more personal note: http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=103199947&m=1932&rr=y&source=bma999

 

[Hawkered]

We'll see if the offer is unacceptable or not.



That is a matter for the membership to decide on.



The CIA could use you to issue propaganda leaflets overseas NJWife. I'm sure that would occupy your time!