Any other pay cuts @ Netjest Inc?

[Lord Wakefield]

Company and Union are in agreement that the company is broke. Will fictional ownership ever work?


Why is it that only the NJA pilots at Netjest Inc are getting pay cuts? The other divisions are losing even more money. Are pay cuts coming to Europe, EJM, how 'bout the NJI pilots?

It's a good thing CEOs don't fly airplanes

 

[flyer172r]

It's a good thing CEOs don't fly airplanes

Maybe they should so they realize how much pilots are worth and pay them accordingly.

 

[netjetwife]

It isn't a matter of can't. It is a matter of won't.

The company is lying! The union leadership doesn't speak for the pilots who are voting them out next month, and many pilots would take a pay cut --at NJA-- if this POS TA (that's what WE all call it) were to pass. Which it definitely WILL NOT. The pilots and their wives are working together in UNISON to get the contract the pilots have earned and deserve. They are the real union. Europe is starting to become profitable--NJA pilots' salaries were spent on expansion. We are saying, NO MORE! And NO to the insulting TA.

 

[Flex]

Wakefield,

(I"m sorry, but he Irish in me prohibits me from calling anyone "lord") I have to respectfully disagree with your post. You said the "Company and the union" are in agreement the company is broke. That is not true. What you should have said is the company and the "MEC" are in agreement the company is broke. The pilots haven't spoken yet, nor will they until the ballots are counted October 22. The MEC are our elected officials, however, although they represent us, and although they have presented a TA they endorse, whether or not they speak for the remaining 1900 pilots in the "union" will be evident shortly.

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

Have you guys ever researched how much it costs netjets to replace a pilot?

I heard a figure in corporate of almost 100K between loss of use, relocation, training, etc.

Would be interesting to know how far they'll (the management) raise before it cost more than loosing pilots and having to replace them - if enough left, they'd also loose flights - hard to estimate the number, but I'm sure it's staggering!

 

[netjetwife]

Ace, you bring up a good point. One which the company would be well advised to consider. I have my ear very "close to the ground", and I'm hearing a distinct shuffling noise. Is it the sound of resumes being prepared? Or feet getting ready to "vote"? Both of those sounds are part of a back up plan. You have to be listening closely to hear them over the shouts of VOTE NO!

 

[Flex]

Good question, how much does it cost? Probably should start another thread on that one. I'll take a jab at it:
1. Cost of flight to interview, two nights in hotel and sim at FSI: flight to houston $300, hotel $200, sim (tough one here they have deals, etc, how about $250), total of $750.

2. Indoc (no hotel, on salary for two weeks $1250, based on 30k a year for a new fo)=$1250

3. Flight safety type rating, (anywhere from 12k-30k, of course it's probably less since FSI is under Berkshire Hathway), let's say 15k for fun) 2 weeks salary, $1250 again, rental car, $250, hotel $1200, perdiem $550 grand total of = $17,000

4. Flight training in airplane (took me a week to do) only salary, no hotel again= $575

GRAND TOTAL = $19,575*

Your mileage may vary, depending on what you think Netjets REALLY pays for the type ratings. Anyone else care to guess?

 

[dukeofdub]

Time will tell

You can vote no, but I say vote yes... take the money and run!

 

[Majik]

You can vote no, but I say vote yes... take the money and run!

Not me. I never take the car salesman's first offer. I say vote no... wait for the 2nd or 3rd offer, then take money and stay!

 

[Grim Reaper]

Majik: it only takes 50% plus one vote. Been doing this a long time. Have seen some strange shxt!

"Thought you could not shoot a gun? I lied!!"

 

[Majik]

Majik: it only takes 50% plus one vote. Been doing this a long time. Have seen some strange shxt!

I know. I'm fairly confident that it will be voted down by at least 75%. I'm hopeful it will be voted down by at least 90%. I'm positive it will be voted down.
I'm willing to risk delaying the company's first offer of a 12% raise for the opportunity to gain more and hopeful that at least 9 out of 10 pilots feel the same.

 

[Snakeplt]

You can vote no, but I say vote yes... take the money and run!

Hey DukeofStupidity !!!

Very interesting. A friend of mine was told EXACTLY THAT by Dave Vermuelen (Our Head MEC). Interesting that you would say the same thing and be pushing a YES vote on this board. Makes you go hmmmmmmmm.

 

[netjetwife]

History repeats itself...

You can vote no, but I say vote yes... take the money and run!

That attitude is what got us into this mess to begin with. At what point do you draw the line? I KNOW my family deserves better. And I'm also sure the wives of management don't drive 14yr old cars and their kids aren't on the poor kid lunch program, either. I've always been one to stand up for what I believe in. Luckily, there are many more who feel the way I do, than would agree with you.

 

[Some guy]

Good question, how much does it cost? Probably should start another thread on that one.
GRAND TOTAL = $19,575*

Didn't you forget the required security clearance / checks? I work for NJA (not a pilot) and I know mine cost the company about $8k. And that was 4 years ago before 9/11. I would imagine it is somewhat more now.



MEL it!

 

[Number$Cruncher]

Maybe they should so they realize how much pilots are worth and pay them accordingly.

"Worth" is the operative word. The trouble is that it is subjective. For you the only one that matters is what the market says you're worth. At any given price you'll have a corresponding supply, and as things seem now, there is ample supply at the current price.

 

[Live4flyng]

"Worth" is the operative word. The trouble is that it is subjective. For you the only one that matters is what the market says you're worth. At any given price you'll have a corresponding supply, and as things seem now, there is ample supply at the current price.

Right you are NumbersMUNCHER. However, everyone reading this has had to pay more for something that they thought should cost less at one time or another. If you are trying to escape a hurricane in Florida and there is only one gas station open that is charging $5 a gallon, you are going to pay it. NetJets has never been in that position with it's pilots, don't be surprised if you see that happen. Believe it or not, the pilots of NJA have much more leverage than an airline. Not one option has been exercised by the pilot group. Leadership is about to change and so will attitudes.

 

[Number$Cruncher]

Right you are NumbersMUNCHER. However, everyone reading this has had to pay more for something that they thought should cost less at one time or another. If you are trying to escape a hurricane in Florida and there is only one gas station open that is charging $5 a gallon, you are going to pay it. NetJets has never been in that position with it's pilots, don't be surprised if you see that happen. Believe it or not, the pilots of NJA have much more leverage than an airline. Not one option has been exercised by the pilot group. Leadership is about to change and so will attitudes.

Yes, that's true about the gas price. But as far as your other promises of pending NetJets' pilot muscle, I'm not holding my breath. First, the TA will pass. Second, do you really think NetJets managment will agree to a pilot contract that further erodes the non-existent net margin they currently have? Never gonna happen.

 

[hbrow15]

If you are trying to escape a hurricane in Florida and there is only one gas station open that is charging $5 a gallon, you are going to pay it.

Hope he was charging $5 gallon before the hurricane or it's price gouging and illegal, kinda like Netjets it try to price gouge you guys, wonder why its not illegal

 

[Number$Cruncher]

On October 22nd, you're going to look like a guy with orange hair, a red nose and big feet. Your posts with absolutes like this are amusing now. Next month, they'll be hilarious. Run along troll.

So is that a description for the troll bit or for a clown? Whatever. I've said many times that I think that the TA will pass, but nothing is absolute. (Well, almost nothing...you absolutely will not see the 100% salary increases so many have been screaming about.)

 

[Number$Cruncher]

Griz

I resemble that remark!



I agree that cruncher is a bit out of line. Seems he believes all management is telling him. I enjoyed watching a few jaws drop at easton when I told them what most people are saying about the TA

JP

What's been out of line? I'm "out of line" because I think the TA will pass?

 

[sikntired]

Step AWAY from the crack pipe Number$cruncher....you *think* the TA will pass?

BWAAHAA HAHAHAHA!

Yo thinker ain't thinkin' no mo!
imsikntired

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Step AWAY from the crack pipe Number$cruncher....you *think* the TA will pass?

Stranger things have happened. Bill Clinton getting re-elected for example.
I'm hearing from more and more people who are saying "Enough already, just gimme my signing bonus and I'll start sending out resumes" Then there's the newbies who want to get out from under the training contract.

The TA is bad for pilots, but there's a lot in here that's bad for the company. That is, unless, they're really still gung-ho on this ab-initio programme...

 

[Grim Reaper]

ab-initio programme... Lord WakeField, Pardon My Ignorance: Define please.

 

[GVFlyer]

Ab Initio

ab-initio programme... Lord WakeField, Pardon My Ignorance: Define please.

Ab Initio is latin meaning literally "From the Beginning." Most Ab Initio flight programs take you from zero time to a commercial.

GV

 

[m80drvr]

I think it would be tough to explain to the owners that Roger Ram Jet in the right seat of the X has 250 whole hours, most of that in a 152.

It would be especially hard to explain to the owners how the company lost 1/2 the experienced pilots due to substandard pay, when their monthy management fees and hourly rates are so high.

Yes, many of you will say the owners dont care as long as they get from point A to point B, but I believe most of the owners are VERY smart and won't want their children and wives on a plane with a Very low time pilot. (no offense fo low timers we were all there once.)

 

[netjetwife]

There are experienced FOs at NJA that will leave.

There are plenty of FOs with lots of experience that will be leaving if the TA were to pass--which I certainly don't think it will. However, it is an alarming trend--paying too low to retain experienced pilots---which will concern the owners, who have been sold on the idea of BEST pilots out there. My husband is an FO/FO on the EXcel--5000 hrs, mostly F16 time. NJA needs to get a grip--the only reason he, and many like him (I talk to their wives), took the job in the first place was to get in on a company that was going places and promising to take the pilots w/them. We all assumed that that would be upwards mobility--NOT A CONTRACT LEADING THE BOTTOM OF THE INDUSTRY!!!! NJA has 75% of the market and will be getting much bigger, according to Buffet. The business has been built on the backs of the pilots who come home dog-tired. Many wives have joined the fight because we are sick of being penny-pinchers married to pilots that are overworked and underpaid. We're through with the status quo. There WILL be a change. Hopefully, it will be one that is good for all concerned. If not, the owners should worry because the "best" pilots have better options.

 

[Hawkered]

Sweet F-16, it's time for a reality check for you!

If your husband leaves NJA, he will be replaced by one of 6,800 pilots walking the streets right now looking for work, soon to be joined by almost 3,000 from USAir. This may surprise you, but it would take me about two weeks to get any of these people up to speed on a Cessna product.

You win some...you lose some. The bottom line, and I mean that...THE BOTTOM LINE... is that the company can make more money by having your hubby go and sell floor tile and put a new hire in his seat.

This is a hard reality for most people to swallow. I like to show up to work, I believe I do a good job. I enjoy the change from scheduled airline flying which bored the living crap out of me. I think that this is the way of the future as do I believe that the airlines are now Greyhound buses with wings. The glory days are over! Get over it, if you can't hack it here, go elsewhere and let the free market do its thing.

 

[PurpleTail]

I'll probably be flamed for this but it has been a while since I have visited this board.

How could NetJets be getting a paycut with a new contract? When I left Options 3 yrs ago NJ old contract was ending and they were the lowest paid in the industry then (and Options was the highest). Are you saying that after 3+ yrs of negotiations that you have gone BACKWARDS and not forward? I know there are a lot of qualified guys on the street right now but you got have to make a stand for yourself...and them!

 

[Schrode]

I believe that the airlines are now Greyhound buses with wings. The glory days are over! Get over it, if you can't hack it here, go elsewhere and let the free market do its thing.

We agree one one thing. The glory days are over - because of guys like you.

 

[dime line]

Schrode...We agree one one thing. The glory days are over - because of guys like you



dude well said