Any Chances For Delta Furloughees

[Dennis Miller]

Lay off SWA/FO's ass. He's just trying to get you to channel your anger where it should be all along, at your piece of sh!t management. Like MedFlyer said, these bastards could walk away rich and not give a rats as$ wheather you have a job or not, unless they need a new pool boy. I baffles me how people rally behind these freakin idiots when all they do is blame their problems on everthing in the industry but themselves. Ask why your company is not making a profit and suddenly they start pointing like the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz.

Look, I've got no beef with people making money. What baffles me is how shocked everyone seems to be that all these CEOs were carrying on under-the-table deals. These guys are more adept at under-the-table than Julie Christie in "Shampoo." Hey, if you were pulling in ten figures a year, and you started to see your dynasty crumble like a Ritz cracker in Jiminy Glick's back pocket, wouldn't you cook the books at 451 degrees fahrenheit? As a matter of fact, you don't even have to cook the books any more. You just have to simmer them, because in the present-day looking glass world of corporate accounting, red is the new black.

There are exceptions. The antithesis of CEO-as-rock-star has got to be Warren Buffett. Doesn't drive a fancy car, stays away from the hottest trends, invests in boring things like carpeting and insurance, sublimates any eccentric or flashy impulses by building a massive underground lair staffed by genetically engineered meerkats who will one day rule the globe when mankind destroys itself through nuclear war. Come on, I can't be the only one who reads his annual reports all the way through... I put all my money on Jimmy Buffet. I don't know how the stock'll do, but the shareholder meetings are a gas.

Now, as someone who has lost two jobs last year let me say I am not just jumping on the economic downturn bandwagon. I am driving it.

But unfortunately, as our system stands, the one who always ends up shafted is the little guy, not the billionaire CEO. It's the 50-year-veteran. The guy who started working at the foundry when it was just two steamy, cramped rooms in someone's basement, but slowly inched his way up to assistant foreman through sheer elbow grease. Now he's 30 seconds from retirement, the company's gone bankrupt, and his pension fund is emptier than the stands at a Chumbawamba concert, so he's got to get a second job bussing tables at one of those Panda $hit chinese food joints.

So I don't want to see some CEO going to jail for three years a minimum-security prison that doubles as a community college during the day. I want them to witness the damage they caused up close. I think they should be sentenced to community service sorting the shoe bin at Goodwill in a low-income neighborhood to get a sense of how real people have to get by. Make Leo Mullin work the drive-thru at "Jack In The Box" so I can literally hear that lying bastard's voice coming out of a clown's mouth. Just don't drive away without checking that you got everything you ordered.

What I'd actually like to see is these guys do hard time in hard prison. See how they like it when we let the warden get creative with the books keeping their sentences. You want to make sure this doesn't happen again, put these losers in with the general population who are doing 10-20 for stealing a scintilla of what these guys did. Then make sure there is a live "Big Brother" shower-cam feed into every CEO's office in the country. You are going to think twice about cheating the numbers when you spot your ex-golf partner all lathered up with a windchime hangin' from his ass.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

 

[General Lee]

Good post Dennis.

 

[Networ-King]

Dennis,

Great post...... Just one thing I gotta say man....

<----------Puff Puff Give...... you fu#$in up the rotation.....

 

[wil]

Dennis- Thank you for pulling this thread out of the dumper! I am really sick and tired of the feud between our pilot groups.

I am just a worker bee but it seems to me that if Delta Mainline, CMR and ASA were somehow joined together and the contract carriers were tossed aside that there would be no furloughs on the street. I know I sound overly simplistic but maybe we do need to see the forest and the trees and not take hatchets to each other.

Of course, I too could be wrong!

 

[General Lee]

Wil,

Make it happen. Talk to your friends there and talk to your MEC members. I am starting to see this also, that we need to pull together and help everyone. The furloughs should come back, and you guys should get growth. Let's hope we all expand someday!!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SWA/FO]

Network-TOOL,

When I was a CFI, Corporate and Freight pilot I wanted to work for any major carrier. I wanted to work for US Airways when they were hiring, it was better then my current job at the time. I had all my apps. in everywhere.

UPDATE 10/22/03:

I DO NOT WANT TO WORK FOR DELTA. (Is that your best comeback?) IF I DID WORK FOR DELTA - I would be in the same $hitty position you're sitting in now. Bitter, Sad and mad.

I am happy and grateful for where I am. I believe, I work for one of the best companies out there. I am glad you have found employment (flying) last I heard you were flying for INDIGO, now you're probably Capt. on a twin cessna? What ever pays the bills pal.

I will be a Captain at SWA before you even get called back to work at DAL.

You are probably a cool guy when $hit is going your way but you sure come accross like an a$$ on this message board.

 

[wil]

General- I will be attending our ALPA meeting this week. I too am hopeful that we can work together and quickly. And, I think that we all could grow and have the furloughs back. Sometimes it takes a shakeup to get our focus back on track. The portfolio concept of DCI carriers is shafting all three of us and it is time that Mainline, ASA and CMR circle the wagons-

 

[General Lee]

Wil,

Bring it up at the meeting, and maybe someday we will all work this out so no one is left behind. Thank you.


SWA/FO,

Come on man, I know you don't like Networ-king and he can be a bit rough, but lay off the harping on furloughs. A lot of them didn't see 9-11 coming, and a lot are actually nice people caught in a bad situation. Some come on this board looking for inspiration, and some of your comments won't help. If you don't like Networ-king, then PM him. I am glad that you have a great job and hope you do great there.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Networ-King]

Wil,

I hope things actually work out the way you see it. It sure would be nice to be under the same umbrella. Thanks for your comments.

General,

Thanks for the support, but don't worry nothing this guy says gets to me. I won't even make a comment about Mr. Orange.

SWA FO no hard feelings man --------->

 

[acarpe3448]

This thread is sure not going the way I wanted it to. However, it is going exactly the way I knew it would. I signed off of this message board for over three months, and when I got back online it was exactly the same thing again. Delta Mainline vs. Comair. It really makes me sick to read about it. As a mainline pilot I will support what my union does, and I am willing to take a pay cut. It does not seem fair to me that Delta is looking only to it's pilot group for the cost savings. A lot of people on this thread keep refering to "look what American Airlines pilots did" well look at the bigger picture, every American Airlines employee took some sort of pay cut. Every one! That is all the Delta pilots are trying to investigate. To tell you the truth I really don't care if you Comair pilots take a pay cut. I know how the pay at a regional sucks in the first place, but believe me your pay is so far ahead of what I made as a regional pilot.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Wil,

Make it happen. Talk to your friends there and talk to your MEC members. I am starting to see this also, that we need to pull together and help everyone. The furloughs should come back, and you guys should get growth. Let's hope we all expand someday!!

Bye Bye--General Lee

Your being silly. Wil's MEC filed the Policy Implementation Date request that your MEC killed.

Your MEC runs ALPA. Our MEC wanted and continues to want a merger or anything that gets rid of the threat from our own union. The problem is your MEC - why don't you talk to them.

I can hardly wait until my 1,000 hours of 121 PIC so I can get out of here and watch you guys kill your own golden goose. Do you know what a Delta pilot is worth without Delta? ... About $16,200 at Mesa. Isn't it ironic that the industry you are out to destroy could well be your next home.

Hope your furloughees are satisfied with sympathy, because sympathy and medical coverage are all your MEC is willing to do for them, so far.

 

[~~~^~~~]

As a mainline pilot I will support what my union does,

Why doesn't your MEC support what you want? Do they represent you, or are you some mindless union supporter that assumes if your MEC killed the opportunity for you to be flying left seat of a CRJ700 - that they must have had a good reason?

Jeesh, why can't you guys think for yourselves? Why don't you demand that your union represent you?

 

[acarpe3448]

To answer your question, yes I do support Dalpa, I think they are looking out for me in the sense that they are trying to slow the transfer of Mainline flying over to the regionals. It seems to me that is exactly what the DCI pilots want. They want unrestricted access to as many RJs as they can get. They want to grow, grow, grow! Faster upgrades, more money, more senority etc, etc. This is just my opinion, but when I was flying for a regional I wanted to see the mainline carriers growing rapidly, with steady growth at my airline. When the mainline carriers were growing, that meant interviewing, and that meant the possibility of moving up to a job that paid better, had better benefits, pension, etc. Now I realize that there just is not any hiring going on at some of the majors, but this scenario could mean recalls, and that is the first step to hiring again. I think this whole principal was shown without a question when the Comair pilots filled that RJDC non sense.

Second, no I do not think that DALPA is really making any big time efforts to get the furloughs back anytime soon. I just have not seen any evidence that they are even thinking about this. Case in point. It really pisses me off to see so much green slipping when I have, lost my job, lost my home that I lived in for 7 years, tried to survive on unemployment for nearly a year, only able to find a job making $10.56 an hour for a family of three. Meanwhile some of these pilots are happily taking home hundreds and hundreds of dollars per hour. If I was a senior pilot at Delta I would say hell no to overtime flying. If you are short pf pilot's then recall more of them. I have heard explanations about how this is supposed to help the company, but I do not see it that way. I see it as taking any chance of any of us being recalled and throwing it out the window.

So you see, yes I am a Delta pilot, and yes I do support Dalpa in some ways. However, I do have my problems with them also. I am just so sick and tired of this whole back and forth crap. I wish you guys everything in the world you want, I pray for your success and happiness. I just think you all at DCI should stop and count your blessings, because believe me you all do not have any idea of just how bad life can be when you loose everything. JUst my 2 cents worth.

17 months since I have flown and counting!!!

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

So, how are we not going to kill the golden goose? By giving you unlimited RJs? Do you really think they are the answer? Come on! They are uncomfortable on long flights for anyone taller than 6ft tall, and our competition will be flying A319s and 737s---which have much more room. What you are worried about is that your RJs will soon be inferior, and that mainline will have to get 100 seaters to compete with Jetblue and Airtran. That is where you get nervous. The RJ will be a thing of the past, and the new front will have 100 seaters and bigger. Why? Because $59 fares and 50 seat RJs don't mix. The bigger the better eventually. Our managment team probably would like you to fly the new planes, because you will for cheap. That AINT gonna happen. Hurry up and get your PIC and get those apps out---but if you think Delta is done you are wrong. You probably also think that fuel prices will continue to rise and the economy is going down fast....This mess will eventually be worked out, and we do know how important this is. You gotta have faith, brother.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[wil]

Acarpe- I am truly sorry to hear of your plight. I wish you and your family all the best and I do hope you get back soon.
My job is to feed mainline and give my customers the best possible service, afterall, most customers can't distinguish between connection or mainline. Here is an idea (donning fire suit now):

1.Combine Delta, ASA,CMR into one pilot group. End all contract flying and put a stake through the heart of "DCI portfolio concept"

2. set a 15 year rate through the fleet as the benchmark with rates adjusted off: Widebody , Medium , narrow , CRJ700 and CRJ200. Set in place a profit share/bonus system.

3. allow the furloughs to fly at ASA/CMR (which is only a paper name since we would be one) until they are able to return to their original position. Once we are back to pre- 9/11 staffing then we can talk about future positions, etc.

I know the one list is a touchy issue but the only way to bring back the furloughs quickly is to end DCI as it stands now and make us one group working together!

Every Skywest, ACA, Chitauqua flight that flies for DCI keeps you on the ground longer. They will have plenty of flying when United and US Air finally implode. I don't wish any ill will to the contract carriers, however, this is business and not personal. I not only want the furloughs back in the cockpit but Delta to be a healthy, vibrant company that can prosper in any market condition!

I hope that we all could get behind this issue and act quickly as time is not on our side!

Cheers,

Wil

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins,

So, how are we not going to kill the golden goose? By giving you unlimited RJs? Do you really think they are the answer?

No, the RJ growth cycle is complete. The market is saturated with 50 seaters. There is room for some CRJ700's. The reason your MEC may kill the Golden Goose is that the longer they stall on negotiations, the longer Delta has a Billion dollar plus cost disparity with Companies like American and Continental. Further it will lower employee morale to take pay cuts below the industry average to offset the Delta pilots making one and one half times what pilots at other airlines do for similar flying.

Further the cost disadvantage your MEC pushes has in fact resulted in Acarpe's continued furlough. If your MEC was not so unreasonable, Delta probably would have acquired additional CRJ700 aircraft for operation at mainline.

Of course where your MEC really screwed everyone is undermining ALPA's Constitution. I should be junior to Acarpe, he should be flying and I should have a future.

But not only is that the right thing to do, it is the smart thing to do. With every dollar Delta goes into debt your MEC loses bargaining power. With every RJ pilot hired, your MEC loses bargaining power. We need to be together and your MEC needs to stop fighting unionism.

~~~^~~~

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

If our MEC Chair allowed more 70 seaters, how long would it take to get them anyway? This wouldn't happen overnight. And, you and I really don't know what is happening behind the scenes, maybe they are talking.....?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Networ-King]

The reason your MEC may kill the Golden Goose is that the longer they stall on negotiations, the longer Delta has a Billion dollar plus cost disparity with Companies like American and Continental. Further it will lower employee morale to take pay cuts below the industry average to offset the Delta pilots making one and one half times what pilots at other airlines do for similar flying.

Fins,

I can't believe there are pilots like you out there that WANT the majors to lower the bar and take pay cuts. If you think Pilot pay is the big problem with the majors losing money then just look at U and UAL. They are STILL bleeding money and siegle just came out and said he need more cuts. WTFO? You should be on our side to keep the pay as high as possible, unless you want to stay at your regional for the rest of your career. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but that was never MY goal. Good luck and hope we can all be one pilot group one day.