Any Chances For Delta Furloughees

[~~~^~~~]

General :

Yes, it is your MEC's fault and I think you know it. For everyone else, lemme 'splain...

Reason 1 : Your MEC undermined our union's Constitution, moved to have the definition of "operational integration" removed and flat out lied at the 2000 BOD meeting to stop ASA and Comair's policy implementation date request. If the ASA and Comair pilots had been successful none of your guys whould have been furloughed and we would not have seven groups of pilots now competitively bidding against each other for Delta's flying.

Reason 2 : Your MEC set preconditions on concessionary bargaining. One of those preconditions are that other employee groups "share the pain."

None of your thoughtless MEC pawns have considered that other employee groups already earn industry standard wages. The Delta pilots in comparison make sixty two percent more than the industry standard and forty seven percent more than the next most highly compensated pilots on EARTH.

Reason 3 : Management is not looking for any real cost savings at Comair, just enough to appease ALPA, as currently hijacked by the Delta MEC. To put this in perspective the 8 million Delta seeks from the Comair pilots is a measly one percent of the over ONE BILLION DOLLAR cost difference between Delta's current pay and what management would be paying under American Airlines Pilots' compensation package.

The irony of this is that DALPA's demand for other employees to take cuts to put them below the industry standard may backfire and result in something the Delta MEC does not want, a DCI merger.

And I can't help but ask the question again, are ASA and Comair Delta, or not? The debate over that question reveals how morally bankrupt ALPA's position is on the matter.

In summation, your MEC has lowered the standard of this industry and continues to do so. I hope the top 1/2 of your seniority list are enjoying what they got, because it is costing us - including your furloughees, a lot.

Nothing personal against you, but you and I have witnessed the further decline of our profession in the last several years thanks to your MEC. I can hardly wait until your own pilots demand change, or we are able to assemble the votes to take back the union and restore the industry.

~~~^~~~

 

[MedFlyer]

I think we have the upper hand, and if they do not agree nothing will be settled until 2007 (2 years after negotiations begin). We shall see.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Why do you think the pilots have the upper hand? Sure the pilots don't have to negotiate, but the pilots have a lot more to lose.

Mullin and Friends can walk away from this company at any time and they will lose nothing. They'll have their millions and a secured retirement benefit. The only things they would lose are some options (most of which are underwater) and it might hurt their reputations. However, in the eyes of the general public, most of the blame will be placed on the pilots.

So while management and DALPA play showdown at the OK corral, Airtran is sneaking in the backdoor and taking all the gold (http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/031022/225223_1.html).


Networ-king,

I won't even try to speculate on the futures of UAL and U, this thread is about DL and the future for DL furloughees (and the standard RJ vs. mainline fight ). Sure DL would benefit if either one of them disappeared. However, if DL's management or DALPA are basing the airlines business plan on the demise of another carrier, than DL's future is definitely dim. I would also hope than no pilot on this board would hope for another carriers demise, just so that they wouldn't have to give concession.

 

[Networ-King]

Fins,

No sir..... I would not go and work for Comair even if you guys got off of your high horse and offered us interviews and jobs without resigning our Delta seniority. I've already done the regional thing and hated it the first time. So stop trying to be the victim here, its getting freaking old. You keep bashing all the Delta guys and we have nothing to do with any of this. Just like you have nothing to do with your flying going to CHQ and SKW. Its amazing how everyone here thinks that Comair and ASA are really profitable all the time. Explain to me how your profitable if your freaking CASM at last count was 11.2 cents a mile and ASA's was somewhere in the 15.0 Cent a mile? I'll tell ya how..... you dont pay for your planes, Delta does. You don't pay for your reservationists, Delta does. You don't pay for your gates, Delta does. You don't pay for D!ck, Delta does. Getting the picture here captain? Stop cutting the general and the rest of us "Delta guys" down all the time. We're not your enemy. By the way..... ASA offered the Delta guys jobs without the resignation thing and guess how many are over there? 13, 14......wwwaaahhhooooo man thats HUGE. HUH? The fact is many pilots would rather go sell houses or get something else going then to get back on food stamps, its just a good will gesture that your management failed to show. I know its not the pilot groups fault, but unfortunately we as pilots always take the blame for majority of it. Just like you keep blaming us for all the crap our piece of Sh!t management is going. Just have a coke and a smile man and fly safe.

Medflyer,

No really..... I want to know when UAL and U are going to go under so I can plan ahead. I don't want to prosper from the fall of UAL or U, but since you can see into the future and all I'd be very interested. The general told me to take it easy on you, but a guy with your vast 1200 hours of experience can surely take care of himself....right? I mean heck.... you've been around the block about a quarter of the way already and you already know the year that Delta is throwing in the towel. WOW. So Im still waiting to know what your crystal ball says. Unless you dropped it and now it has a crack in it?

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

You really can't compare American or UAL to Delta. They were backed into a corner, and lost. They have more unions and less flexibility. We are 80% NON-union, which means 80% No protection. We pay dues each month to protect what we have, and the others who don't are really gambling. Yes, we are paid more than our peers, and that will probably go down a bit. So is Comair--compared to their peers. I guess that means they should also take a large cut--and that would affect ASA also. Comair probably makes 50-80% more than Chitaqua, but you don't compare those two. How are Delta's rates compared to Northwest's? Not 80% higher, but you choose American which has even worse economic problems. Just because their management backed them into a corner, doesn't mean we will allow them to do that to us. Even Leo said we are in no immediate threat of Chap 11.(by the way, how many RJs are we buying over the next two years? Guess what, passengers do NOT like flying them long distances, it is embarrassing that we are competing with Frontier A318/19s and AA MD80s on the DFW--DEN routing--between two cities that each have well over 2 million people. Can you explain that? It is ALL the pilot's fault, right??? We provide 150 total seats a day in a cramped CRJ50 between two very large cities.....We do the same to Phoenix, and OAK, even SNA or the "OC" on TV.(CR7s on those two) Why? I guess no one wants to go there. It is obviously the pilots' fault.)

And, we keep saying that we are willing to give them some paycuts right now, if they need the cash so bad----just with some restrictions. They will have to decide whether or not they need it right now. Our contract is like a safe, that can't be opened. We will consider opening it, and maybe giving them a loan. They will have to pay it back eventually. Your situation is different---you will give money if you want any new expansion. They have to keep us at a certain level, or will have to pay our guys to sit--thanks to our still existing No Furlough Clause. But, the money is there waiting for them.....

As far as waiting for UAL or USAir to go under, I don't think they are doing that. They are moving forward and looking forward to the holiday travel pick up and a better Spring and Summer. We have plenty of cash to survive this bump. The economy is growing and gas prices will come down. Enjoy!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

General :

Yes, it is your MEC's fault and I think you know it. For everyone else, lemme 'splain...

Do you always blame others for YOUR shortcomings. Have you ever taken responsibility for never having successorship language that would have protect your interests in the event of an acquisition. But I guess it's just easier to blame the mainline than take responsibility for your own inactions. Because YOU failed to have any meaningful successorship language in your PWA you are now a wholly owned subsidiary with scope over zero hours. You have become a vendor of small jet lift and you must now compete against lower bidders for the flying. It's not the fault of the Delta pilots that YOU failed to protect yourself.

 

[tbkane]

Once again this thread is totally a DCI vs mainline arguement. I would also like to hijack this thread back and address the MAINLINE FURLOUGHS and ask other mainline employees their prognosis on weather we will ever get to go back.

If you want to argue DCI VS mainline why don't we get another category so the rest of us don't have to read it all the time.

 

[SWA/FO]

Hey Clown!!! or I mean Net-working,

Take it easy. We all know how you feel now. You bleed Delta blue and white (if that is what it is?). You will never consider working anywhere else, we get it. You would rather sell houses, dig a ditch, scoop fries etc... we get it.

If I may ask, how long were you at DAL before they stopped paying you a pay check? You seem very loyal to a company that has stopped paying you, probably over two years ago.

You make the comment that everyone will be working for a LCC and living off of 150,000/yr. (something like that..). Just think those people have made 300,000 in the two years that you have been laid-off. There is something to be said about a stable company and that stable paycheck. I'm not just talking about SWA, there is AirTran and JetBlue - Most of these folks just worry about where to spend their money not where it will come from. BTW, you will never make back the money from DAL you are missing out on now.

Be easy on our 1200 hour fellow aviator, you were there once?
You don't sound happy and frankly, I think your posts make you look like a$$. You like those dollar signs?

 

[jetflyer]

It's not Comair's fault anyways that there are furloughees on the street!! It's amazing how it's the fault of the RJ and Comair in Delta pilot's eyes. The problem is a lot of the Delta pilot's eyes are closed. Blame the low cost carrier, blame the economy, blame the terrorism or Iraq war, blame anything else! Or in the words of Milli Vanilli (OK lip-sinked words), "Blame it on the Rain!"

Delta, Comair, and ASA are part of the same company. Let's learn to live with each other. Let's form some solidarity and together we can add market share, all grow together, and be prosperous. If we continue to fight, blame each other, and not find a way to work together we'll stagnate, continue to have furluoghs on the street, and always be miserable. I THINK WE NEED TO ALL GROW UP, apologize and move on.

These DCI bashing threads are frankly getting old for everyone.

Back to the topic now, sorry.

 

[Networ-King]

Aaaahhh the famous Jacka$$, SWA FO,

I see your sticking your nose in it again. If you can stop being an idiot for one second why don't you re-read my post. I said I am not interested in flying for any regional making 17K a year again. Thats just me, but you had to stick you nose in it again didn't you. For your information I am employed and flying and not jerking gear like you are.....whats the matter not enough flying. Are you close to your 1000 hours for the year already? I know that the LCC's are doing well and they are good companies and yes I would fly for them.... You also forget other good companies, like Frontier, Alaska, ATA, AWA.

And the 150K a year you were refering to is after how many years? 10-12..... Yeah I doubt a 3rd year LCC FO is making that kind of coin, even with open time flying. (Jetblue quick Capt upgrade is an exception)

And why don't you check out my other posts about my "wonderful Delta management team" <----- sarcasm......sorry folks just had to spell it out for this moron....then you'd see that YOU are the one that looks like an idiot with your post. And as for the 1200 hour pilot....yeah I was there, but I knew my limits. All I asked was for this experienced pilot to clue us all in some future happenings in the airline industry so we can all plan better. If that hurts his feelings well then maybe he should just read and not post or maybe you should let him take care of himself.

by the way SWA FO ..... your application at Delta has expired by now so your not gonna get a call for an interview, so when Delta starts to hire again you might want to reapply.

let me know I'll walk it in for you.....

Hey does your naked captain ever tell you to
to make this face ---------->

 

[General Lee]

Man alive, this is getting nasty. Even after we get paycuts, we will still be the highest paid in the industry. The economy is getting better, and passengers are flying again, albeit for lower fares. That is something Delta will have to deal with, and they are working on it partly with Song, where the CASM is 7.0---not bad. Now, the rest of Delta has to get better, but the rest of Delta is not only domestic---we have a lot of INTL ops that are very profitable. Bringing extra RJs on board will NOT help, since they increase CASM, and the lower fares do not make RJs profitable. This management team of ours will hopefully come up with a way to combat these LCCs----probably by lowering some salaries, and increasing frequency with bigger planes--like Song is doing. People don't want to fly on long planes rides in RJs--not when they can hop a comfortable Frontier A319 instead. That is the truth, and hopefully management will see that. Why fly DTW to DFW on a 50 seat RJ when you can fly on a NW A319 or AA MD80? The price is probably the same, and with the RJ comfort, you probably will have a hard time filling it. Don't get me wrong, I think the RJs have their place, and they are better than props. But, when you have to go head to head against a LCC with a larger airplane and the same price, the RJ will lose. Time to wake up.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Dennis Miller]

Lay off SWA/FO's ass. He's just trying to get you to channel your anger where it should be all along, at your piece of sh!t management. Like MedFlyer said, these bastards could walk away rich and not give a rats as$ wheather you have a job or not, unless they need a new pool boy. I baffles me how people rally behind these freakin idiots when all they do is blame their problems on everthing in the industry but themselves. Ask why your company is not making a profit and suddenly they start pointing like the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz.

Look, I've got no beef with people making money. What baffles me is how shocked everyone seems to be that all these CEOs were carrying on under-the-table deals. These guys are more adept at under-the-table than Julie Christie in "Shampoo." Hey, if you were pulling in ten figures a year, and you started to see your dynasty crumble like a Ritz cracker in Jiminy Glick's back pocket, wouldn't you cook the books at 451 degrees fahrenheit? As a matter of fact, you don't even have to cook the books any more. You just have to simmer them, because in the present-day looking glass world of corporate accounting, red is the new black.

There are exceptions. The antithesis of CEO-as-rock-star has got to be Warren Buffett. Doesn't drive a fancy car, stays away from the hottest trends, invests in boring things like carpeting and insurance, sublimates any eccentric or flashy impulses by building a massive underground lair staffed by genetically engineered meerkats who will one day rule the globe when mankind destroys itself through nuclear war. Come on, I can't be the only one who reads his annual reports all the way through... I put all my money on Jimmy Buffet. I don't know how the stock'll do, but the shareholder meetings are a gas.

Now, as someone who has lost two jobs last year let me say I am not just jumping on the economic downturn bandwagon. I am driving it.

But unfortunately, as our system stands, the one who always ends up shafted is the little guy, not the billionaire CEO. It's the 50-year-veteran. The guy who started working at the foundry when it was just two steamy, cramped rooms in someone's basement, but slowly inched his way up to assistant foreman through sheer elbow grease. Now he's 30 seconds from retirement, the company's gone bankrupt, and his pension fund is emptier than the stands at a Chumbawamba concert, so he's got to get a second job bussing tables at one of those Panda $hit chinese food joints.

So I don't want to see some CEO going to jail for three years a minimum-security prison that doubles as a community college during the day. I want them to witness the damage they caused up close. I think they should be sentenced to community service sorting the shoe bin at Goodwill in a low-income neighborhood to get a sense of how real people have to get by. Make Leo Mullin work the drive-thru at "Jack In The Box" so I can literally hear that lying bastard's voice coming out of a clown's mouth. Just don't drive away without checking that you got everything you ordered.

What I'd actually like to see is these guys do hard time in hard prison. See how they like it when we let the warden get creative with the books keeping their sentences. You want to make sure this doesn't happen again, put these losers in with the general population who are doing 10-20 for stealing a scintilla of what these guys did. Then make sure there is a live "Big Brother" shower-cam feed into every CEO's office in the country. You are going to think twice about cheating the numbers when you spot your ex-golf partner all lathered up with a windchime hangin' from his ass.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

 

[General Lee]

Good post Dennis.

 

[Networ-King]

Dennis,

Great post...... Just one thing I gotta say man....

<----------Puff Puff Give...... you fu#$in up the rotation.....

 

[wil]

Dennis- Thank you for pulling this thread out of the dumper! I am really sick and tired of the feud between our pilot groups.

I am just a worker bee but it seems to me that if Delta Mainline, CMR and ASA were somehow joined together and the contract carriers were tossed aside that there would be no furloughs on the street. I know I sound overly simplistic but maybe we do need to see the forest and the trees and not take hatchets to each other.

Of course, I too could be wrong!

 

[General Lee]

Wil,

Make it happen. Talk to your friends there and talk to your MEC members. I am starting to see this also, that we need to pull together and help everyone. The furloughs should come back, and you guys should get growth. Let's hope we all expand someday!!

Bye Bye--General Lee