Anti union voters at Flexjet/Options

[exagony]

As a rule the airlines who are all unionized with large support, don't like pilots who seek to undermine other pilots benefits and work rules that were hard fought by unions. This is especially true regarding pilots who are clearly in the IGM club. As the IGM pilots try to undermine a on property union why should they welcome the same IGM pilot types into their ranks? There is a reason there is a scab list. No one is suggesting a "scab list" per say but the hiring boards on the airlines - which include union members - would clearly be interested in knowing the names of the type of pilot who is more interested in themselves versus the good of the pilot group. The same pilots who want to screw their brothers and sisters here will be the type who will readily cross the picket line. A previous poster stated that unlike the organizers at Options and Flexjet who received nothing but grief and hardship for trying to help the greater pilot group, FW, PD, TP all benefit from leading the charge against the union. Each one has "got theirs" and stand to benefit from getting more should the union be decertified. If FW is one of the "toughest guys you've ever met and a man on honor and courage" then I think you need to expand your friend base and meet real people of courage and honor. Looking out for yourself and how you will personally benefit is as far from an honorable or courageous man as one can imagine.

 

[Club ORD FO]

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FW got his G650 position as the second most senior Flexjet pilot who applied JF was the first and declined wishing to remain in his current position. The slots were filled according to the union rules of a 50/50 split between Flex and Options pilots. Check the facts and stop trying to concoct conspiracy theories.

Yes the seniority and 50/50 rules are thanks to the union and the fence agreement. If FW wins that goes away and the airplanes can be staffed however the company wants (out of seniority just like it was before the fence agreement). Are you ok with that?

 

[993_Pilot]

My bet is that there is a percentage of pilots who support the union, but who also signed the card as a safety play. They want to be in the good graces of management, maybe get a Red Label ILC spot, just in case it all goes south. I guess we'll see soon enough if they have the numbers to get a vote.

 

[Club ORD FO]

My bet is that there is a percentage of pilots who support the union, but who also signed the card as a safety play. They want to be in the good graces of management, maybe get a Red Label ILC spot, just in case it all goes south. I guess we'll see soon enough if they have the numbers to get a vote.

There is most definitely a percentage of pilots who signed a card thinking they were voting for an in-house union lead by FW. Which is most definitely not the case. You're signing that card expressing interest in NO union.

 

[Imissmypilot]

There is most definitely a percentage of pilots who signed a card thinking they were voting for an in-house union lead by FW. Which is most definitely not the case. You're signing that card expressing interest in NO union.

Which begs the question: If in order to "win" Frank agrees to set up a weak in house union (he practically exposes this plan in one of his latest posts) he would be committing fraud?

A union - any union - has a legal obligation to seek the advancement and best interests of all of its members as a whole. (Side note this is the reason the SLI issue was won by the union and will again and again.)

Purposefully not doing this is precarious and wrong on many levels. Frank would have to fight to protect seniority, seek pay parity, fight for work rules that favor safety; basically Frank would be putting himself at direct odds with management. Don't be fooled. Kenn's problems aren't with the Teamsters. Kenn's problems are rules.

How can this bastion of intelligence, strength and integrity (according to MRE) be so stupid, deceitful and dishonorable that the main part of his plan hinges on doing the wrong thing - either getting rid of our hard fought protections or instituting a puppet regime?

By the way, isn't it funny for all the talk about Teamsters being thugs etc... the only people who have made physical threats of bodily harm against our own union leaders are FW, PD and TP?

Irony abounds everywhere with this sham.

 

[airman2105]

You know if someone wants to run his own Union he has been bought and paid for by you know who! He has been promised promotion like PD, why else does he have different levels of managers? Everyone is looking over their shoulder in case a "special manager" reports him. The general theme of Flexjet pilots is to "remain under the radar", we don't want to get fired. Is that the type of company that does not need a union? It is crying out to keep the union in place. Your CEO has a history that stinks of deceit and manipulation so what makes you think time is going to change him. I think if you really thought you had the votes you would have pushed for it months ago.

 

[jetwash]

You know if someone wants to run his own Union he has been bought and paid for by you know who! He has been promised promotion like PD, why else does he have different levels of managers? Everyone is looking over their shoulder in case a "special manager" reports him. The general theme of Flexjet pilots is to "remain under the radar", we don't want to get fired. Is that the type of company that does not need a union? It is crying out to keep the union in place. Your CEO has a history that stinks of deceit and manipulation so what makes you think time is going to change him. I think if you really thought you had the votes you would have pushed for it months ago.

You are absolutely correct.

When we finally got our first contact, all of the worry about looking over your shoulder for backstabbing coworkers went away. All of the stress and pressure directed at you from management and their clones disappeared.
Many on the Flexjet side have been experiencing this since the merger not knowing what is going to happen next.

You will see things drastically calm down when there is a new CBA and you can go back to enjoying your job knowing the work rules and where you stand.
If you believe that throwing away a contract with work rules will make things better and improve your quality of life at work you will be sadly disappointed.
The retribution, back stabbing and buddy system will amplify the stress and uncertainty that many are now feeling.

You may not like the Teamsters but they really are try to make things better for you and your families.

 

[jetmaster727]

You are absolutely correct.

When we finally got our first contact, all of the worry about looking over your shoulder for backstabbing coworkers went away. All of the stress and pressure directed at you from management and their clones disappeared.
Many on the Flexjet side have been experiencing this since the merger not knowing what is going to happen next.

You will see things drastically calm down when there is a new CBA and you can go back to enjoying your job knowing the work rules and where you stand.
If you believe that throwing away a contract with work rules will make things better and improve your quality of life at work you will be sadly disappointed.
The retribution, back stabbing and buddy system will amplify the stress and uncertainty that many are now feeling.

You may not like the Teamsters but they really are try to make things better for you and your families.

I dont understand why why any employee would trust a management that refuses to honor a fairly arbitrated contract. If they really thought of you as family they would at lest show the respect of honoring our mcba

 

[Imissmypilot]

Sitting around the FBO I was talking to a potential new hire who turned down the offer Flexjet made to him. His main reason? The website address he was given for what is "affectionately" known as the porn lounge. He said it's one thing for employees to feel frustrated with management (he even said in aviation it's practically a requirement) but it's a whole new toxic level to have a group of pilots turn on their union. In his words: "who wants to work at a place with a bunch of clueless jackasses?"

Incidentally he was given the website address during another FBO chat from a Flexer who thought he was doing the guy a great favor when he asked about the status of the negotiations. The Flexers proud retort was there would be no negotiations to worry about and suggested he go look at the site. I'd love to know what idiot thought that was a good idea.

Speaking of the porn lounge you gotta love the obviously complete-bs-save-face response they are giving for their naming oversight. Even though it was created months after yammer shut down, even though they didn't acknowledge or address it for months after it was brought up to them, even though they accused people who pointed it out as being childish and gutteral, they are now trying to ride the wave and make you believe it was some kind of statement. Never trust a guy who can't admit he made a mistake let alone laugh at them.

Which is it: they are bastions of professionalism, integrity, class and respect OR they are anger driven homies who are gonna show tha man what they think about being silenced? Well at least the last option matches the threats of physical harm that same "leader" has made to more than a few pilots. Funny thing for all his smack talk I hear he backs down like a pu$$y cat from every opportunity to even simply verbally express his frustrations face to face.

You can't pay for that kind of entertainment. Come on MRE - you wanna keep defending your boy? It's getting pretty hard when you start finding out the truth isn't it?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Wouldn't it be really ironic if they fail to represent someone and that person decides to sue FW, PD, TP, MW, et al personally? Where are they going to get the money if nobody has to pay dues?

 

[doh]

Spoiler alert! FW is telling people they will be displaced from red label if they joined after October 10 because the union demanded it in negotiations. That is BS! They never even discussed it! Do not fall victim to Wookie speak!

 

[doh]

Posted from the VUH with permission from the original poster:

Using FW's own written words from 11/19 and 11/22 he makes it clear he does not intend to form an in-house union. He only leaves that open as a future possibility should pilots feel, after some period time experimenting with no representation, one was necessary.

Pilots need to understand that sending in a card is not a vote to replace the Teamsters with an in-house union, it is a showing of interest to become a completely unrepresented pilot group. I'm hearing some pilots may have been mislead on this very important point and if so, they need to refresh their facts with FW's own written words. To his credit, FW is not trying to fool anyone: he is very upfront with his assertion he does not feel we need any representation be it Teamsters or in-house.

Pilots need to understand sending in a card of interest puts the entirety of any representation on the line. I don't think some of the rhetoric bandied about by others associated with the drive is as forthright or clear as FW was in his posts because I know very few pilots who want to go back to no representation at all. I believe if pilots truly understood the stakes of sending in that card they would tear it up. It's not a case of democracy in action, it's just a way to get us back to at will.

It is an extremely, extremely risky way for someone to express their displeasure. A far more compelling and successful maneuver would be to get involved in the union we already have and help create the union you want that way.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Spoiler alert! FW is telling people they will be displaced from red label if they joined after October 10 because the union demanded it in negotiations. That is BS! They never even discussed it! Do not fall victim to Wookie speak!

Good to know. I think there is confusion because of some recent new aircraft assignments.

What I can confirm is happening (because I spoke with the guys it's happening to) is early comers to the Red Label program are now being switched out of their dog-eared and spent Red Label tail numbers and put into the new aircraft deliveries.

Then those older POS are being handed over to the later list additions. These guys will have slim to no chance of earning the reliability etc... bonuses.

Yet another way for Kenn to reward his top 20%. The divide is now beginning to show its early legs.

So question for all the supposed FoKs. In reality, after all the gamesmanship and propaganda, there's only room for 100. You're either in or you're out. Get ready for it go away without your union protecting it if old Wookie gets his way.

As inconvenient as it is to admit, the union is the only entity that fought for these Red Label guys to keep what they have.

 

[doh]

I Know the passions run deep on this topic but calling out people and trying to intentionally damage the careers of the people you have worked with for years is just plain the wrong thing to do. Also personal insults toward FW are unfounded. i have known him for 13 years and the man is truly honorable and of good concience He is doing what he believes in as are u. Let go of the personal and focus on ur points. And insults about him not having the balls to this or that are ridiculous He didnt have to get involved in this He is Very senior at Flex and would be just fine without it. He has no management aspirations. He is just doing what he believes in. FW is one of the toughest guys I have ever met and a man of honor and courage Make your points but dont attack the individual.

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The card drive is actually verified by the NMB There is no possibillity of a corrupted list. None. Lets just see if we can do better with a vote. It is the will of the people. I have seen the names on the list Some of these men and women are respected by the entire pilot group They are honorable and good people. The list probably has some of your friends on it. Does their opinion the opinion of a large number of your coworkers matter. I believe it does. We should all support a vote and address the will of the people it effects. Hope you guys take a break from the angry rants and have a nice Holoday

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FW got his G650 position as the second most senior Flexjet pilot who applied JF was the first and declined wishing to remain in his current position. The slots were filled according to the union rules of a 50/50 split between Flex and Options pilots. Check the facts and stop trying to concoct conspiracy theories.

no one got this position based on seniority! Wookieboy got this based on favoritism and nothing else. Why would anyone interview for a job they already have? Especially when everyone already knows who will be deemed to be most qualified. He got the position strictly because he assumed the position and suppressed his gag reflex so many times. Seniority had nothing to do with it.

 

[TexasChallenger]

FW got his G650 position as the second most senior Flexjet pilot who applied JF was the first and declined wishing to remain in his current position. The slots were filled according to the union rules of a 50/50 split between Flex and Options pilots. Check the facts and stop trying to concoct conspiracy theories.

It's not the Union's rules. It was the arbitrator's decision, and it's 60/40, not 50/50.