Anti union voters at Flexjet/Options

[exagony]

I wonder if all the airlines would be interested in the names of the ardent anti-union pilots. Since they are so anti-union here why should an airline that have unions welcome them into their ranks?

 

[Dooker]

I'd be interested. I left Flexjet a year and a half ago (as a MIGS, thank you very much) and was fortunate to get picked up by a major. I watch the list of upcoming interviewees like a hawk.

Feel free to PM me.

 

[doh]

Dooker, I’ll definitely let you know!

 

[jetmaster727]

Dooker, I’ll definitely let you know!

Real question is: How many card has the NMB received from these pussies asking for a new vote?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

A ***** just folds under pressure. These back stabbers are taking an active role in under-mining the rest of the pilot group. This can NEVER be forgiven.

 

[Mre52]

Asking for a vote may not agree with you but many of the Flexjet pilots are not happy with the IBT You guys are all arrogance and false solidarity Solidarity should be to the people who you work with If they want a vote lets have a vote and may the best representation win

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Be careful how you handle your second attempt at a fake scab list This could be misconstrued as attempting to tamper with the upcoming vote You guys should Never be making such suggestions Lets keep it legal shall we?

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The actual numbers will be revealed soon but I will say the number of those calling for a vote is far more than expected. Why are you so afraid of offering all of the Options to the entire pilot group and letting a vote decide It all seems very American to me. What system would cry out against a vote in order to remain in power.

 

[1folinepilot]

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The actual numbers will be revealed soon but I will say the number of those calling for a vote is far more than expected. Why are you so afraid of offering all of the Options to the entire pilot group and letting a vote decide It all seems very American to me. What system would cry out against a vote in order to remain in power.[/QUOTE]

who is verifying the authenticity of the signatures on the cards you claim to have received? PD and FW could be just scribbling names and employee numbers from the employee address list the company supplied those two misguided clowns

 

[Imissmypilot]

MR the problem I have with your statements is the Flexjet guys "who are not happy with the IBT" refused to do anything to work with the IBT. These guys didn't join committees, voice their opinions or even pay their dues. Now I don't have much room to talk but at least I've paid my dues and tried to support the cause as best I can.

The other problem I have is from FW own words the whole point is they intend NOT TO REPRESENT. They intend to basically just get us back to whatever the hell Uncle wants. And then in complete naivete he says if that doesn't work they can start an in-house. As if it will be that easy to get the reins back after handing them off to Kenn. He claims there's enough money and expertise in house to do it alone if we decided to do it. He has also admitted they have no negotiation strategy, isl plan, committee structure, legal representation or commitments from leaders nor do they want to spend time developing them. The statements he is making are so naive, so intellectually incongruent, so brazen etc... I find it hard to believe one person with half a brain would throw their support behind him or any of the others associated with the decert let alone 50% of our pilots. But I do believe there are enough "money" thinkers among our ranks to be worried about how many he'll sway. Flexjet pilots are cheap. So cheap they'll risk exorbitant dues tommorow ( if we want teeth behind our in house) to get out of paying 1.56 today.

On that note, the one statement that makes no sense to me is he is tired of the lack of action on the part of the IBT or a lot of support from the national. Has he been paying attention? Do you realize the cost alone of the legal representation we've received? Since those lawyers are retained by the National it's hard to quantify but trust me we can't even begin to pay it even if all of us were paying dues.

On the one hand he seems to admit that is 100% due to management's stalling techniques through legal trickery since he claims the #1 reason to decertify is that Kenn has said he will never work with the IBT and stops at nothing to defeat them. He knows the problem is Kenn but he seems to think giving into Kenn will solve the problem. What?

I don't get why anyone with half a pair of balls let alone a whole set would take a statement like that and use it as a reason to cower and give in to that kind of bully nonsense. We should take statements like that and have a whole new reason (beyond industry standard unionization) and declare ****ing war on that bull****.

FW is nothing but a coward who feels protected by the bars of his emprisonment. Are you one too?

I for one have had just about enough of this management team. I've had enough of their lies, delays, divisions and disrespect. Why haven't you?

 

[shanes123]

IMISSMYPILOT is knocking it out of the park lately!!!!!!!! Yep that sums it up!!!!!

 

[Honorstudent]

Imissmypilot is spot on, If the 1108 were removed as the representative agent for Flexjet within six months there would be a majority of the Flex Pilots crying on this very board how they F***ed up. FW and PD would have any seat in the Company they want making big salaries regardless of seniority, but you can bet it wouldn’t be that way for the majority!,,,

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

I remember PD bragging about how he was going to be the new Chief Pilot at Flex, and that was less than two years ago.

 

[Honorstudent]

Not surprising, who know’s what PD was promised? Apparently FW was promised a G650 seat. That certainly isn’t a majority of FO or Flex Pilot’s by any stretch. The real question is will the Pilots support two self-serving individuals or a group of Union Leadership Pilots that have put everything on the line, not for there own advancement but for all pilots across the board? We will see I guess.

 

[Mre52]

I Know the passions run deep on this topic but calling out people and trying to intentionally damage the careers of the people you have worked with for years is just plain the wrong thing to do. Also personal insults toward FW are unfounded. i have known him for 13 years and the man is truly honorable and of good concience He is doing what he believes in as are u. Let go of the personal and focus on ur points. And insults about him not having the balls to this or that are ridiculous He didnt have to get involved in this He is Very senior at Flex and would be just fine without it. He has no management aspirations. He is just doing what he believes in. FW is one of the toughest guys I have ever met and a man of honor and courage Make your points but dont attack the individual.

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The card drive is actually verified by the NMB There is no possibillity of a corrupted list. None. Lets just see if we can do better with a vote. It is the will of the people. I have seen the names on the list Some of these men and women are respected by the entire pilot group They are honorable and good people. The list probably has some of your friends on it. Does their opinion the opinion of a large number of your coworkers matter. I believe it does. We should all support a vote and address the will of the people it effects. Hope you guys take a break from the angry rants and have a nice Holoday

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FW got his G650 position as the second most senior Flexjet pilot who applied JF was the first and declined wishing to remain in his current position. The slots were filled according to the union rules of a 50/50 split between Flex and Options pilots. Check the facts and stop trying to concoct conspiracy theories.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Honorsstudent - could not have said it better.

Every single pilot associated with the decert has gotten some special privilege or status.

When I go down thru the line of the original POC members it's easy to see the opposite has happened. Some were temporarily fired, some made so miserable they left and others have suffered unwarranted targeting or disciplinary action that is obviously due to their union activities.

I know every time I see those POC guys I thank them for their efforts. Unfortunately, they tell me those encouragements are few and far between. What the hell is wrong with our pilot group when a guy like MRE will get on here and publically thank FW and TP for working hard to steal our money and protections yet these individuals who are truly sacrificing for the benefit of all are left to wonder what the hell they gave it all up for?

MRE I too have known these "decert" guys for years. The picture you paint is not accurate. They are not bad guys; perfectly acceptable to break some bread or have a beer with. But self sacrificers they are not. I know for a fact FW will through you under the bus quicker than you can say boo if it serves him to do it. That's not a personal attack, that's just experiential reality. Even if, like an Options pilot, all I had to judge him on were his posts and actions over the past 2 years, plain and simple he's not someone who has shown himself to have integrity. YMMV but that's my opinion.

 

[Imissmypilot]

One more thing MRE how is it that you have seen the list? According to the form the information is supposed to be 100% confidential.

Seeing as how the only person of record is FW and the rest of you refuse to officially endorse or format a committee of record I do believe you have just admitted to committing an NMB violation.

What's that again about integrity? Either you have none or FW who shared the information with you has none. Or both.

If I were someone who sent in a card and just found out my confidential information and identity is being shared with whomever, I'd be pissed.

 

[exagony]

As a rule the airlines who are all unionized with large support, don't like pilots who seek to undermine other pilots benefits and work rules that were hard fought by unions. This is especially true regarding pilots who are clearly in the IGM club. As the IGM pilots try to undermine a on property union why should they welcome the same IGM pilot types into their ranks? There is a reason there is a scab list. No one is suggesting a "scab list" per say but the hiring boards on the airlines - which include union members - would clearly be interested in knowing the names of the type of pilot who is more interested in themselves versus the good of the pilot group. The same pilots who want to screw their brothers and sisters here will be the type who will readily cross the picket line. A previous poster stated that unlike the organizers at Options and Flexjet who received nothing but grief and hardship for trying to help the greater pilot group, FW, PD, TP all benefit from leading the charge against the union. Each one has "got theirs" and stand to benefit from getting more should the union be decertified. If FW is one of the "toughest guys you've ever met and a man on honor and courage" then I think you need to expand your friend base and meet real people of courage and honor. Looking out for yourself and how you will personally benefit is as far from an honorable or courageous man as one can imagine.

 

[Club ORD FO]

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FW got his G650 position as the second most senior Flexjet pilot who applied JF was the first and declined wishing to remain in his current position. The slots were filled according to the union rules of a 50/50 split between Flex and Options pilots. Check the facts and stop trying to concoct conspiracy theories.

Yes the seniority and 50/50 rules are thanks to the union and the fence agreement. If FW wins that goes away and the airplanes can be staffed however the company wants (out of seniority just like it was before the fence agreement). Are you ok with that?

 

[993_Pilot]

My bet is that there is a percentage of pilots who support the union, but who also signed the card as a safety play. They want to be in the good graces of management, maybe get a Red Label ILC spot, just in case it all goes south. I guess we'll see soon enough if they have the numbers to get a vote.

 

[Club ORD FO]

My bet is that there is a percentage of pilots who support the union, but who also signed the card as a safety play. They want to be in the good graces of management, maybe get a Red Label ILC spot, just in case it all goes south. I guess we'll see soon enough if they have the numbers to get a vote.

There is most definitely a percentage of pilots who signed a card thinking they were voting for an in-house union lead by FW. Which is most definitely not the case. You're signing that card expressing interest in NO union.

 

[Imissmypilot]

There is most definitely a percentage of pilots who signed a card thinking they were voting for an in-house union lead by FW. Which is most definitely not the case. You're signing that card expressing interest in NO union.

Which begs the question: If in order to "win" Frank agrees to set up a weak in house union (he practically exposes this plan in one of his latest posts) he would be committing fraud?

A union - any union - has a legal obligation to seek the advancement and best interests of all of its members as a whole. (Side note this is the reason the SLI issue was won by the union and will again and again.)

Purposefully not doing this is precarious and wrong on many levels. Frank would have to fight to protect seniority, seek pay parity, fight for work rules that favor safety; basically Frank would be putting himself at direct odds with management. Don't be fooled. Kenn's problems aren't with the Teamsters. Kenn's problems are rules.

How can this bastion of intelligence, strength and integrity (according to MRE) be so stupid, deceitful and dishonorable that the main part of his plan hinges on doing the wrong thing - either getting rid of our hard fought protections or instituting a puppet regime?

By the way, isn't it funny for all the talk about Teamsters being thugs etc... the only people who have made physical threats of bodily harm against our own union leaders are FW, PD and TP?

Irony abounds everywhere with this sham.

 

[airman2105]

You know if someone wants to run his own Union he has been bought and paid for by you know who! He has been promised promotion like PD, why else does he have different levels of managers? Everyone is looking over their shoulder in case a "special manager" reports him. The general theme of Flexjet pilots is to "remain under the radar", we don't want to get fired. Is that the type of company that does not need a union? It is crying out to keep the union in place. Your CEO has a history that stinks of deceit and manipulation so what makes you think time is going to change him. I think if you really thought you had the votes you would have pushed for it months ago.

 

[jetwash]

You know if someone wants to run his own Union he has been bought and paid for by you know who! He has been promised promotion like PD, why else does he have different levels of managers? Everyone is looking over their shoulder in case a "special manager" reports him. The general theme of Flexjet pilots is to "remain under the radar", we don't want to get fired. Is that the type of company that does not need a union? It is crying out to keep the union in place. Your CEO has a history that stinks of deceit and manipulation so what makes you think time is going to change him. I think if you really thought you had the votes you would have pushed for it months ago.

You are absolutely correct.

When we finally got our first contact, all of the worry about looking over your shoulder for backstabbing coworkers went away. All of the stress and pressure directed at you from management and their clones disappeared.
Many on the Flexjet side have been experiencing this since the merger not knowing what is going to happen next.

You will see things drastically calm down when there is a new CBA and you can go back to enjoying your job knowing the work rules and where you stand.
If you believe that throwing away a contract with work rules will make things better and improve your quality of life at work you will be sadly disappointed.
The retribution, back stabbing and buddy system will amplify the stress and uncertainty that many are now feeling.

You may not like the Teamsters but they really are try to make things better for you and your families.

 

[jetmaster727]

You are absolutely correct.

When we finally got our first contact, all of the worry about looking over your shoulder for backstabbing coworkers went away. All of the stress and pressure directed at you from management and their clones disappeared.
Many on the Flexjet side have been experiencing this since the merger not knowing what is going to happen next.

You will see things drastically calm down when there is a new CBA and you can go back to enjoying your job knowing the work rules and where you stand.
If you believe that throwing away a contract with work rules will make things better and improve your quality of life at work you will be sadly disappointed.
The retribution, back stabbing and buddy system will amplify the stress and uncertainty that many are now feeling.

You may not like the Teamsters but they really are try to make things better for you and your families.

I dont understand why why any employee would trust a management that refuses to honor a fairly arbitrated contract. If they really thought of you as family they would at lest show the respect of honoring our mcba

 

[Imissmypilot]

Sitting around the FBO I was talking to a potential new hire who turned down the offer Flexjet made to him. His main reason? The website address he was given for what is "affectionately" known as the porn lounge. He said it's one thing for employees to feel frustrated with management (he even said in aviation it's practically a requirement) but it's a whole new toxic level to have a group of pilots turn on their union. In his words: "who wants to work at a place with a bunch of clueless jackasses?"

Incidentally he was given the website address during another FBO chat from a Flexer who thought he was doing the guy a great favor when he asked about the status of the negotiations. The Flexers proud retort was there would be no negotiations to worry about and suggested he go look at the site. I'd love to know what idiot thought that was a good idea.

Speaking of the porn lounge you gotta love the obviously complete-bs-save-face response they are giving for their naming oversight. Even though it was created months after yammer shut down, even though they didn't acknowledge or address it for months after it was brought up to them, even though they accused people who pointed it out as being childish and gutteral, they are now trying to ride the wave and make you believe it was some kind of statement. Never trust a guy who can't admit he made a mistake let alone laugh at them.

Which is it: they are bastions of professionalism, integrity, class and respect OR they are anger driven homies who are gonna show tha man what they think about being silenced? Well at least the last option matches the threats of physical harm that same "leader" has made to more than a few pilots. Funny thing for all his smack talk I hear he backs down like a pu$$y cat from every opportunity to even simply verbally express his frustrations face to face.

You can't pay for that kind of entertainment. Come on MRE - you wanna keep defending your boy? It's getting pretty hard when you start finding out the truth isn't it?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Wouldn't it be really ironic if they fail to represent someone and that person decides to sue FW, PD, TP, MW, et al personally? Where are they going to get the money if nobody has to pay dues?

 

[doh]

Spoiler alert! FW is telling people they will be displaced from red label if they joined after October 10 because the union demanded it in negotiations. That is BS! They never even discussed it! Do not fall victim to Wookie speak!

 

[doh]

Posted from the VUH with permission from the original poster:

Using FW's own written words from 11/19 and 11/22 he makes it clear he does not intend to form an in-house union. He only leaves that open as a future possibility should pilots feel, after some period time experimenting with no representation, one was necessary.

Pilots need to understand that sending in a card is not a vote to replace the Teamsters with an in-house union, it is a showing of interest to become a completely unrepresented pilot group. I'm hearing some pilots may have been mislead on this very important point and if so, they need to refresh their facts with FW's own written words. To his credit, FW is not trying to fool anyone: he is very upfront with his assertion he does not feel we need any representation be it Teamsters or in-house.

Pilots need to understand sending in a card of interest puts the entirety of any representation on the line. I don't think some of the rhetoric bandied about by others associated with the drive is as forthright or clear as FW was in his posts because I know very few pilots who want to go back to no representation at all. I believe if pilots truly understood the stakes of sending in that card they would tear it up. It's not a case of democracy in action, it's just a way to get us back to at will.

It is an extremely, extremely risky way for someone to express their displeasure. A far more compelling and successful maneuver would be to get involved in the union we already have and help create the union you want that way.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Spoiler alert! FW is telling people they will be displaced from red label if they joined after October 10 because the union demanded it in negotiations. That is BS! They never even discussed it! Do not fall victim to Wookie speak!

Good to know. I think there is confusion because of some recent new aircraft assignments.

What I can confirm is happening (because I spoke with the guys it's happening to) is early comers to the Red Label program are now being switched out of their dog-eared and spent Red Label tail numbers and put into the new aircraft deliveries.

Then those older POS are being handed over to the later list additions. These guys will have slim to no chance of earning the reliability etc... bonuses.

Yet another way for Kenn to reward his top 20%. The divide is now beginning to show its early legs.

So question for all the supposed FoKs. In reality, after all the gamesmanship and propaganda, there's only room for 100. You're either in or you're out. Get ready for it go away without your union protecting it if old Wookie gets his way.

As inconvenient as it is to admit, the union is the only entity that fought for these Red Label guys to keep what they have.

 

[doh]

I Know the passions run deep on this topic but calling out people and trying to intentionally damage the careers of the people you have worked with for years is just plain the wrong thing to do. Also personal insults toward FW are unfounded. i have known him for 13 years and the man is truly honorable and of good concience He is doing what he believes in as are u. Let go of the personal and focus on ur points. And insults about him not having the balls to this or that are ridiculous He didnt have to get involved in this He is Very senior at Flex and would be just fine without it. He has no management aspirations. He is just doing what he believes in. FW is one of the toughest guys I have ever met and a man of honor and courage Make your points but dont attack the individual.

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The card drive is actually verified by the NMB There is no possibillity of a corrupted list. None. Lets just see if we can do better with a vote. It is the will of the people. I have seen the names on the list Some of these men and women are respected by the entire pilot group They are honorable and good people. The list probably has some of your friends on it. Does their opinion the opinion of a large number of your coworkers matter. I believe it does. We should all support a vote and address the will of the people it effects. Hope you guys take a break from the angry rants and have a nice Holoday

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FW got his G650 position as the second most senior Flexjet pilot who applied JF was the first and declined wishing to remain in his current position. The slots were filled according to the union rules of a 50/50 split between Flex and Options pilots. Check the facts and stop trying to concoct conspiracy theories.

no one got this position based on seniority! Wookieboy got this based on favoritism and nothing else. Why would anyone interview for a job they already have? Especially when everyone already knows who will be deemed to be most qualified. He got the position strictly because he assumed the position and suppressed his gag reflex so many times. Seniority had nothing to do with it.

 

[TexasChallenger]

FW got his G650 position as the second most senior Flexjet pilot who applied JF was the first and declined wishing to remain in his current position. The slots were filled according to the union rules of a 50/50 split between Flex and Options pilots. Check the facts and stop trying to concoct conspiracy theories.

It's not the Union's rules. It was the arbitrator's decision, and it's 60/40, not 50/50.