Another PFT.....WTF!!!

[The_Russian]

Watch out! This guy hates GIA and PCL guys! He might have to hurt our feelings.

Please remember that I am not defending PFT. I am very much against it. The GIA FO program is not PFT. These guys do not take jobs away from anyone. Most of you dont understand because you dont know sh!t about Gulfstream.

 

[User546]

WTF do hours have to do with it. When you blame things on the FO, it is because of your lack of confidence as a CPT. I hate flying with guys who think like you do.

What about a 700 hour FO fumbling thru trying to interpret taxi diagrams and instructions at La Guardia have to do with the confidence of the CPT? In a dual crew enviroment, one taxi's the airplane, while the other reads the instructions and keeps track where your at on the diagram. I know plenty of low time pilots that it's a challenge for them to do that. Why would a Captain want to have to babysit the FO and taxi the airplane at the same time in an extremely busy airport like LGA or ORD? That's all he's saying.

BEGINING RANT....

Now Russian, we've always co-existed on this board, and I've kept my mouth shut many times, but I'm going to say something now. Your an admitted ex-Gulfstream student, that is PFT thru and thru, and you are the type of person that every professional pilot on this board talks bad about.

You are extremly unprofessional in your responses, you have an extremely childish mentality, and you've got a lot of pinned up anger you need to get rid of. Now whether your upset and defenseful because you are/were a GIA pilot, I can't say, and frankly I don't care. But I've always gotten the feeling that you have spent a lot of time in your short career defending yourself and your decisions to other people, and thats why you go off the broom handle everytime someone says anything negative about GIA.

Now I'm not saying all of this to start a flame-war or to get into a p1ssing match, but I think you need to just step back and take a look at things from other peoples perspective, and see where we're all coming from. Just because you bought a job in the right sight does not mean that you are a well seasoned veteran of the flying industry, and you sitting in the rigth-seat for someone is worth your weight in gold.

But I digress now, and I hope you take it all for what its worth, and be a little more open-minded from now on.

 

[Dizel8]

"You think the public will even understand your idiodic jealousy of GAA's program?":

Jealousy WTF, I sincerely doubt anyone is jealous of you, your position or for that matter, any position at GAA.

Make sure you highlight your working experience at GAA on your resume, I am sure it will be regarded highly.

Honestly though, thanks for the laugh, I mean, jealousy and GAA in the same sentence, good one!

 

[The_Russian]

User,

I do see myself as a very open minded person. I used to be on your side of the fence. Making fun of all the little GAA students. It was when these students became my friends also that I learned about what it is all about. And I also learned that I was misjudging them, as the people on this board do. The members of this board also get very offensive in their posts. Is it unprofessional of me to return fire every once in a while? No, it isn't. Becasue I am defending my friends and myself now. I am defending them from persecution that they and I do not deserve. We don't buy our jobs. We earn them. I recieved a permanent job with the airline because I was an instuctor for them prior to doing the FO program. The GAA students that go to PCL have to interveiw like any other PCL pilot. None of our pilots are taking jobs from other pilots because FO's like me fly 90% of the flying the airline has. Getting paid union wages and benifits better than most other 1900 operators.

Now, GIA has a PFT Captain program and there are some people in it. IBT747 and the pilot group including myself is out there doing what it takes to stop this program. The Captain program IS buying a job (PFT/PFJ). Please trust me that this will not last. They are taking jobs, FO program grads are not.

Thank you for your objective response User. If it means anything, I value your opinion and calm manner of presenting it.

 

[PCL_128]

Russian, please explain how the FO program isn't PFT but the Captain program is. I don't see the difference. Both are PFT and the union on the property should be working to get it stopped.

 

[Dizel8]

Gotta love that the company is run by a scab, but the teamsters are looking into it. Yeah, like he would honour their wishes. Besides, I am sure dangling that glorious Brasilia in front of our commie friend would be all that is needed. I doubt he has the morale fiber to resist such an awesome opportunity.


Come on DOWN, here is what you get:
examination
250 hrs Flying Line As Part-121 Paid First Officer At GIA In Beech 1900D

522 Total Hours Of Training Including 318 Hours OF Turboprop Flight Training

First Officer Program Price $29,684*

*After receiving $2,000 in flight pay, program cost is just $27,684.

·All training hours are based on averages while the actual amount of training is based on individual proficiency.

·Prior flight experience is required including commercial, instrument, and multi-engine rating.

·The cost for all materials and check rides is included in the overall program.

·Program prices do not include room & board and the required uniforms

·Applicable prices and costs for most other services are listed in the following pages of this brochure.

·The actual number of weeks it will take to complete ground school and flight training will vary according to the individual's schedule and proficiency

·The overall program is expected to take approximately seven months to complete.

COURSE REQUIREMENTS

First Officer candidates must be 18 years of age, hold FAA Commercial and Instrument certificates with a Multi-engine rating, a valid passport, and a first class medical certificate. The candidate will be required to demonstrate pilot proficiency and aeronautical knowledge via a sim eval and a written exam.

 

[Dizel8]

Anyway Russian, why you are upset at them PFT/PFJ'ing Captains is beyond me, but perhaps you are finally getting the point!

 

[mike51135]

Pft

The GAA students that go to PCL have to interveiw like any other PCL pilot.

That may be true, but when I interviewed along with 9 other "non-GAA" pilots, only 4 out of us 10 got the job. When I was in training, HR went to Florida and interviewed 50 GAA people and all but 1 got the job.

Does that sound fair to anyone?

 

[The_Russian]

That may be true, but when I interviewed along with 9 other "non-GAA" pilots, only 4 out of us 10 got the job. When I was in training, HR went to Florida and interviewed 50 GAA people and all but 1 got the job.

Does that sound fair to anyone?

See, now thats what I am talking about. "Fairness". Give me a break. Life isn't fair. PCL hires those most qualified. GAA students have a pass rate with PCL of 98%. PCL also communicates directly with GAA to get what they want out of the GAA pilots.

Russian, please explain how the FO program isn't PFT but the Captain program is. I don't see the difference. Both are PFT and the union on the property should be working to get it stopped.

Because the FO program is about time and experience building. The students fill open time and reserve time and so not to take a seat from a permanent hire pilot. The Captain Program IS buying a job straight out. Then on top of that, they replace permanent hire pilots by working for 8 dollars an hour and no benifits. Essentially "extending" the FO program and knocking people out of jobs, a lot of people. FO program students do not do that. When I call in sick, then they fly. I hope that helps to clear things up.

 

[SEFlyer]

Because the FO program is about time and experience building. The students fill open time and reserve time and so not to take a seat from a permanent hire pilot.

At any other airline, these open time and reserve time are given to hired pilots. The FO is ABSOLUTELY taking a job away from another pilot. If there were no PFT "time builders" as you call them, the company would not be able to operate without hiring additional FOs to cover reserve, open time, vacations, sick calls, FMLAs, etc.

GIA program is and always will be a PFT. The only downside is your paying for training, taking a job away from someone else, and then you don't even get to keep the job. That has to be the worst deal I have ever seen.

 

[The_Russian]

The only downside is your paying for training, taking a job away from someone else, and then you don't even get to keep the job.

These pilots that fill these positions would need a job in the workfoce anyway. As a CFI, banner pilot, or even airline/charter pilot. So the only thing they are doing is making other jobs more abundant. Our airline feeds its pilot group from the street and GAA. That is how it is and how its going to be. Get used to it. GIA also gives jobs to pilots who are on furlough, allowing families to eat dinner every night.

The FO is ABSOLUTELY taking a job away from another pilot.

Yes, he or she is taking THEIR job.

Why do you act like someone is stealing from you when they aren't? Before you criticize GIA or GAA, take a good look at yourself and the industry you are in. Maybe your employer isn't treating you so fairly.

 

[SEFlyer]

Yes, he or she is taking THEIR job.

Why do you act like someone is stealing from you when they aren't? Before you criticize GIA or GAA, take a good look at yourself and the industry you are in. Maybe your employer isn't treating you so fairly.

To the tune of nearly 30,000 big ones. If the FO has 30,000 bucks to spend on a $9/hour job, then he/she definitely has plenty of money to put food on their families table.

I act like someone is stealing from me, because in a sense they are. When GIA doesn't have to pay labor wages OR training wages, it allows them to undercut other airlines for flying, which takes away from REAL jobs where people actually make a little bit of money (not just 9k a year -- well, less the 30k given to the company upfront).

Rationalize it all you want. GIA is worse than PFT. At least if someone pays solely for their training, most companies will pay them an okay wage. But for someone to PFT and then work for 9 or 8 bucks an hour. That's rediculous.

 

[Dizel8]

Well, normally at airlines, open time and sick calls are handled by reserves who get paid at regular wages, not some PFT'r who gets $9 an hour.

Still, I love how you are upset with the CA PFT/PFJ, after all, that keeps the FO seat open for you and your PFT friends or perhaps you can go take one of the many other jobs it opens up like banner towing, flight instructing.

"Please remember that I am not defending PFT. I am very much against it. The GIA FO program is not PFT."

No, then what the heck is it?

Oh, you can rationalize and explain etc., just like the scabs did, but it will follow you for a long time to come. Because THAT is how it is going to be!

 

[cforst513]

$4,000 doesn't sound that bad. not that i would ever do PFT. but what's gulfstream charging nowadays? and phoenix east aviation? all i remember with them is that stupid picture of a KingAir on the beach. god.

 

[PropsR4Boats]

What do you have to say for COMAIR (Delta) Connection guys, its the same thing am I wrong?

I don't understand the Russian. He is mad at others for commiting the same crime he is guilty of. Sounds like your typical Communist Russian.