Another MU2 down...

[ACT700]

That came out weird, huh?

All of it came out as a quote. Just to make sure skyking1976 doesn't get freaky on me, he did not write all of that in the quote box.

But I don't feel like rewriting all.

The first sentence in the quote box was skyking1976's comment. Then, my thoughts on his statements.

Clear as mud?

 

[avbug]

Accidents and incidents happens for many reasons and some of them are through no fault or deficiency in the pro pilot. Avbug is full of bravado, hence the BS meter is pegged. Do I really need to pick through his verbose essay line by line?

fido

Yes, perhaps you ought. I'm quite serious in my comments, and I stand behind them. It's no bravado. I have utter contempt and disgust for any pilot that fails to stand behind his work. I've dealt with engine failures, fires, and system failures of every kind you can imagine...not just in simulators, but in the field where it really counts. Not once have I ever undertaken to blame the airplane for the outcome of the flight. I made the decision to fly it, and the buck stops with me. I'm one hundred percent responsible for the safe outcome of the flight, no matter what may occur; I'm paid to take that responsibility and to exercise the judgement that is required to see it come to pass, and I seal the deal with my honor and with my blood. I sign for the airplane and in so doing I sign a blood oath that I will do my utmost, give my all, to see the flight through to a safe conclusion.

As do we all.

You think this is untrue, "bs"? Think again. Any pilot who doesn't accept this, any pilot who doesn't and can't accept the full weight of responsibility, doesn't deserve to be a pilot, and has failed his duty before the flight has ever begun.

I meet pilots who blame the weather, a sudden gust, a mechanic, their copilot or first officer, dispatch, the FAA, their wife, or any other possible excuse under God and the sun, for their performance. We all have. These men have no honor, and have failed their basic duty of accepting the weight of responsibility as PIC. Conversely, I've met a few honorable men who had the gumption to stand before the public when asked for an explaination and simply say "I Fricked up." Exactly as it should be, exactly as required by regulation, exactly as per their duty.

You tear it apart line by line, brightspark. If you can't accept true responsibility, your arguements or thoughts hold no water...your commentary can only truly be about yourself. I remember many years ago, standing at attention, an angry sounding young man in my ear, bellowing for an explaination. I was only allowed one thing to say, which I bellowed back lound and clear..."NO EXCUSE, SIR!"

I'm sure you have that one down pat too, don't you? Then why not admit it?



--I really wish the censor feature would merely put in "censored" instead of the watered down language it now substitutes, if it must do anything at all. Profanity has it's place in the lexicon in the right circumstance, and altering it to meet the sunday school teacher's approval only sounds weak.

 

[WNRHD17]

So the pilots on the Spaceship Columbia were at fault b/c a piece of foam came off during takeoff? Oh but wait, THEY made the conscience decision to become a pilot in a spaceship....that's right it IS their fault....so it's my fault I was t-boned by some a-hole who ran a stop sign a couple years ago? Oh wait, it is my fault, I should have been looking in that direction! Duh! So essentially, we are all to blame for anything and everything that happens to us? None of asked to be born you know...so who's to blame for that? Our parents? Well, they didn't ask to be born either....hmm...so now where do we turn? God? WAit, not everyone believes in god, it must be something universal....the single-celled organisms where life began? Nah, that can't be it. Once again, I repeat, ANYTHING that is man-made has the possibility and/or probability of being faulty in one way or another. I believe you are 100% responsible for any choice you consciously make in life, no matter what it is, but there are factors that aren't being accounted for.

 

[Snakum]

If we were to weed out all the so-called "idiots" posting on this board there might not be anyone left

God ... that is SO true. I'm one of the biggest.

(Making goofy Forest Gump wave ... ) "Hey Dad! Hey Miriam!"

While I agree, in theory, with most of what Avbug said (as I usually do), I believe he might have toned down or otherwise modified the manner in which he said it, out of respect for the rather unique circumstances of this thread.

I'm in a unique situation in all this ... Paul was a friend of mine, as are (now) his sisters, his father, and his widow. He was a great guy who bent over backwards to give this psuedo-old-fart career-changer all sorts of advice, a discount at Jeppesens, and gave my employer an 'In' at the Jeppesen IT department on an outsourced project. He was an awesome young man. He was also, by all accounts, an outstanding pilot and I have no doubt that he fought all the way in.

Not long before we lost Paul, I lost my father to Cancer a very, very short time after he was diagnosed. My father was a mentor and a best friend and losing him forced me to face my own mortality in a way that twenty years contemplating my own demise on a meditation cushion never did. It finally sunk in that I, too, was not immortal after all and I really would die one day, much to my amazement. I didn't handle it well at all. Then, I had just started flying a bit after his death when we lost Paul, adding fuel to the fire. It's embarrassing to say this, but for a while I was terrified of getting in an airplane. I'd go out to the FBO, rent the plane, preflight, and just before getting in the d*mn thing I'd literally have a panic attack. I even sent a PM to Paul's father to talk about it, despite the embarrasment. It was a very uncomfortable time.

I went home without flying a few times before I finally realized the following things: I have (and always have had) excellent hand-eye coordination and reflexes and I can ride, fly, drive, or sail just about anything I have ever sat my fat butt in or on with minimal training. It's just one of those things I could always do well. And while I am definitely NOT the brightest bulb in the lamp (an understatement ), I have a work ethic and discipline for learning that few can match. Before flying a new aircraft - even with an instructor - I will pour over every page of the POH, post numerous questions here about the plane, ask anyone and everyone within earshot about it's characteristics and 'gotchas', go back thru my PPL books with this specific aircraft in mind ... all before even going up with an instructor. What I lack in brains ... I make up for in discipline and determination to learn. And so I finally saw that I was at least as good a pilot as anyone who has ever sat in an airplane, I knew my stuff from studying my butt off, and I could execute due to good basic skills and a willingness to continually polish them, and lastly ... that I could get killed driving to the airport much quicker than in the airplane. And so the fear was finally broken. I fully understood that I had done my part, and now I could hide under my bed the rest of my life and give up on a dream, or I could get my fat ass back in the air and face my fear. I haven't had a problem since. Now the really good part ...

There is another young Captain/Ops Manager who has also been a very generous mentor to me over the past couple years, and he is building a 91/135 flight department from scratch which will eventually consist of two turboprops and one light jet. He has offered to interview me next Summer - assuming I can, by then, meet the insurance TT/ME time requirements. No guarantees, but an offer to look at me for one of the FO positions next year. And wouldn't you know it ... one of the turboprops is an MU-2. However, just as I trust my physical skills and my discipline/motivation for learning and practice, I also trust his judgement on airplanes. He is adamant that all Captains AND First Officers will attend Flight Safety or Howell Enterprises for MU-2 training. He has already shown that he's not the kind of Manager/Chief Pilot to train the Captain the cheapest way possible and then throw the FO into the airplane for OJT on the gear and radios. He is obviously very serious about training both crew members to highest standard possible. He also takes maintenance very seriously, as well. I know, for example, that he has had an issue on the Mitsu with the contracted maintenance people, and as a result he has had a 'prayer meeting' with them and he has mentioned to me that he won't hesitate to take it somewhere else. His opinion on the MU-2 is that top-notch maintenance is crucial for safe flight operations and he has said the company will spare no expense to ensure his maintenance is second to none.

So, to wind up my long, boring post ... though I readily admit to having gone thru a period of literally being terrified of flying any airplane, and though I will still admit that I am a bit apprehensive about the MU-2, specifically, I know that I possess the innate physical ability to fly practically anything, given the proper training. And I know that my self-discipline and motivation for learning and practice will keep me sharp. I just have to do my part. I also trust the Chief Pilot 100%, and I believe him when he says the MU-2 training will be first rate for ALL crewmembers and that the MU-2 maintenance will never be fudged nor less than top-notch. And so, if I am eventually offered a job in the right seat of an MU-2, I will not hesitate to pack up the car and go. I've weighed the pros and cons, I trust my own abilities, and I trust the Chief Pilot will do what he says he'll do. Despite the MU-2s reputation, and despite the fact that a friend of mine died in one, I will happily strap into one if given the opportunity because I trust all those involved in it's operation completely.

That's really all any of can do, isn't it? We choose a company that doesn't scrimp on money where safety is concerned, and we work hard at staying sharp and maintaining our knowledge of the airplane. We have to either choose well and train hard ... or hang it and go sell used cars at Billy Ray Jackson's Auto Auction.

I'll shut up now.

Minh

 

[Peanut gallery]

Avbug is right on, about these issues

The problem I have with this thread is the logic that is taking place.

Some aircraft do have issues. A company that intends to operate them needs to effectively deal with those issues, in terms of training, checking and continuing some sort of self critique on how they are doing.

I would not blame an aircraft that has been around this long for it's shortcommings. I did take objection to the thought of playing them down. These pilots did the best they could I am sure with the tools they were given.

So what if in the end you are forced to say that your loved one screwed the pouch. He or she is still that special person that you will remember as long as you live. I personally have had to come to terms with the loss of my best friend many years ago and rather than fight the idea of him being perfect I remember that special, funny talented individual that I still miss 20 years later. The thoughts I have about companies and corporate culture changing to mitigate risk and remove risk from operations while still operating effectively are a tribute to my friend that was caught up in a similar process of lack of support and structure.

Pilots need support from the company that they are flying for in terms of the above process. I feel that the folks that are no longer with us would be better served if their friends, co-workers, and families brought attention to the environment in which these things did not occur as evidenced by another accident by the same operator.

In the 121 world the most recent advancement is ATOS which seeks to address these issues at a company level. Most major carriers have been required to implement ATOS procedures. Any new certificates are required to meet ATOS requirements. It would be excellent if the 135 world would adopt these ideas, especially ones that operate basically a schedule.

The checks and balances that enhance safety just seem to be missing from this company. The record speaks for itself.

Where there is smoke, there is fire

 

[avbug]

Who put the muzzle of a .45 pistol to the foreheads of each shuttle astronaut and forced him or her to volunteer for that mission?

Not a soul on board would ever breathe a word contrary to the immortal words of Dick Scobee, who died in the Challenger disaster, when he said it's almost a crime to get paid for doing something he loved so much.

Yes, the mission commander, the pilot in command, and the NASA Administrator take the responsibility for what happened.

Personally, I have nothing but sick contempt for those who live to find blame...but if you want to lay blame in an airplane, lay it at the feet of the pilot in command.

Any pilot who doesn't accept it is a spinless fool. Dead or alive, we all know the score before we introduce fuel or spark, before we ever cross the dark tarmac and open a door, before we ever get out of bed. We know.

Knowing, and failing to accept full responsibility for loose foam, bad safety wire, thunderstorms, or two passengers far in the back who get into a fight...is cowardice and failure to uphold ones duty as PIC. In that aircraft, no authority short of God is greater than that of the PIC, and no soul can or should attempt to take away that responsibility. It's supreme, it's heavy, and it belongs on the shoulders of the PIC, pure and simple.

Anything else is a bald faced lie.

Where there is smoke, there is fire

Oh, I certainly hope so.

We need more fire. It's been a slow year.

 

[Standby 1]

As a former ACT'er, my heart goes out to the family......again. I'm terribly sad about this, but not suprised.

(thanking my lucky stars that I got out when I did over there)....



.

 

[WNRHD17]

who made you god of flightinfo, avbug? do you own the board? you seem to know it all....

 

[Snakum]

who made you god of flightinfo, avbug?

ROFLMAO!

I like Avbug (Anyone remember IFR Monkeys?), and he's forgotten more about flying than many of us will ever know. However, you're not the first poster who has asked this exact same question, m'lady. Still LMAO!

D'oh! I just blew coffee outta my nose and onto the keyboard.


Minhommad the Mad Muslim Pig Farmer

 

[semperfido]

Yes, perhaps you ought. I'm quite serious in my comments, and I stand behind them. It's no bravado. I have utter contempt and disgust for any pilot that fails to stand behind his work. I've dealt with engine failures, fires, and system failures of every kind you can imagine...not just in simulators, but in the field where it really counts. Not once have I ever undertaken to blame the airplane for the outcome of the flight. I made the decision to fly it, and the buck stops with me. I'm one hundred percent responsible for the safe outcome of the flight, no matter what may occur; I'm paid to take that responsibility and to exercise the judgement that is required to see it come to pass, and I seal the deal with my honor and with my blood. I sign for the airplane and in so doing I sign a blood oath that I will do my utmost, give my all, to see the flight through to a safe conclusion.

As do we all.

You think this is untrue, "bs"? Think again. Any pilot who doesn't accept this, any pilot who doesn't and can't accept the full weight of responsibility, doesn't deserve to be a pilot, and has failed his duty before the flight has ever begun.

I meet pilots who blame the weather, a sudden gust, a mechanic, their copilot or first officer, dispatch, the FAA, their wife, or any other possible excuse under God and the sun, for their performance. We all have. These men have no honor, and have failed their basic duty of accepting the weight of responsibility as PIC. Conversely, I've met a few honorable men who had the gumption to stand before the public when asked for an explaination and simply say "I Fricked up." Exactly as it should be, exactly as required by regulation, exactly as per their duty.

You tear it apart line by line, brightspark. If you can't accept true responsibility, your arguements or thoughts hold no water...your commentary can only truly be about yourself. I remember many years ago, standing at attention, an angry sounding young man in my ear, bellowing for an explaination. I was only allowed one thing to say, which I bellowed back lound and clear..."NO EXCUSE, SIR!"

I'm sure you have that one down pat too, don't you? Then why not admit it?



--I really wish the censor feature would merely put in "censored" instead of the watered down language it now substitutes, if it must do anything at all. Profanity has it's place in the lexicon in the right circumstance, and altering it to meet the sunday school teacher's approval only sounds weak.

What planet are you from Avbug? The NTSB reports are full of accidents that have probable causes that are not the pilot. Go peddle your "Holier than thou" trash somewhere else. Better yet, put on "The High and Mighty" - it is right up your alley.