Another Merger, Another Bankruptcy whens it gonna end!

[HalinTexas]

This thread is being considered thick skinned debate now, and less factual.

When have facts ever gotten in the way of wrong-headed opinion on FI?

It would be nice if those involved did get their facts correct before submitting their opinion.

 

[SWA Bubba]

I didn't say you ever went BK.

We've had all this out years ago.

Bottom line: If Love Field had remained either closed or open, equally, to all airlines, SWA would not be in business and the WA would not have been written.

Actual bottom line: Love field IS and has been open, equally, to all airlines. American and Continental still have two gates each at Love. They are free to use them at any time, and I believe CO still does. I think (not really sure) that the last time American used their gates at Love was when they used them to kill Legend Airlines. They could use them today if they wanted. I assume they do not because then they couldn't easily use their hub-and-spoke model at two airports in the same city (transfers, etc.) There would be even more gates available (for any other airline) if not for the artificial limit imposed at the compromise agreement that was signed in 2006 to fully repeal the WA in 2014.

You still haven't said how the WA has done anything to help SWA. All it did was help American by keeping us from competing with them on interstate flights as we had intended.

Bubba

P.S. By the way, this quote of yours below does sound a LOT like you said Southwest had gone BK:

No airline's BK has ever been as one sided as the deal SWA got with the WA

 

[SIG600]

I think bubba handled the wright amendment in his standard superb fashion, so onto more interesting things:



How would repeal of the 17th amendment affect anything about Jim wright, a congressman?
But moving past that, IMO, in all things political in our republic, the enemy is corruption- which is a moving target at best. But not a target we should ever stop seeking to destroy.
I do believe the latest round of propaganda espousing the repeal of the 17th is to further consolidate power in the united states to a few. There is an element here that truly believes in their birthright, and would like to see themselves returned to their rightful position as kings and lords. Even if called another, more palatable and veiled name.
This consolidation of power, whether it is citizens united, or the financial services modernization act, or the dilution of power of the people through repeal of the 17th is in direct conflict with the preamble of the constitution and as Lincoln spoke so eloquently about it at Gettysburg :
"that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

"Our democracy depends upon an informed constituency"- T. Jefferson

You sig, seem to have a propagandized education, and if capable of success as a commercial pilot, can do better than these regurgitations.

The 17th Amendment revoked each states right to appoint their senators, thus putting them to a popular vote. When you did that, the states lost their right to name representation and the entire senate was put up for sale. Every elected rep, save for a few, are now in the pockets of the corporations that backed their campaigns. They may say they work for their constituents.... very few have the performance to actually back it. It's not a consolodation of power, quite the opposite. It's limiting the power of big gov't, the influence of the "kings and lords."

BTW, the 17th Amendment was ratified in 1913, quite a while after Lincoln gave the Gettysburg address and it damn near upends the preamble of the constitution taking away states rights, once piece at a time. History my friend, learn it. I'm wholly against the corruption and perversion of our gov't. Quite the opposite I'm a big fan of undoing all these little facilities that allow large corporations and the rich to influence it and purchase their little cutouts.


I don't know enough about Wrights campaign and who some of his financial backers were, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that AA and maybe others were donating dollars. That, wave, is one example of why the 17th should be repealed and the power returned to the individual states to appoint their representation.

 

[HalinTexas]

Look up Jim Wright, please. His district was in Ft. Worth. AMR didn't move to Ft. Worth until 1979. Braniff was already here, on the west side of the airport.

Look up the Wright Amendment, too. There were 3 commercial airline airports in the area. Ft. Worth had two, and had to shut them down to commercial airlines when Dallas and Ft. Worth agreed to build DFW back in the '60s. FTW was pissed that KDAL was still open. They lost the initial battle with the CAB (look that up, too, please) and the city of Dallas over SWA. After the industry was deregulated, SWA was not bound by the intra-Texas operational restrictions. So they went to KMSY. This again violated the agreement with Dallas. They sued again, but it appeared they were going to lose, so they got Jim Wright to help. AMR had little to nothing to do with these early flights. Braniff was probably more pissed off, since their largest hub was at DFW and they were also heavily invested in it.

So, in summary, the Wright Amendment restricted SWA from growing at KDAL. It did not help it. If anything, it helped Braniff, AMR an DAL, but we all know how THAT turned out? Or do we? Read Hard Landing - Petzinger. That's a whole other enchilade. It also helped out the city of Dallas in terms of revenue.

 

[The Prussian]

Look up Jim Wright, please. His district was in Ft. Worth. AMR didn't move to Ft. Worth until 1979. Braniff was already here, on the west side of the airport.

Look up the Wright Amendment, too. There were 3 commercial airline airports in the area. Ft. Worth had two, and had to shut them down to commercial airlines when Dallas and Ft. Worth agreed to build DFW back in the '60s. FTW was pissed that KDAL was still open. They lost the initial battle with the CAB (look that up, too, please) and the city of Dallas over SWA. After the industry was deregulated, SWA was not bound by the intra-Texas operational restrictions. So they went to KMSY. This again violated the agreement with Dallas. They sued again, but it appeared they were going to lose, so they got Jim Wright to help. AMR had little to nothing to do with these early flights. Braniff was probably more pissed off, since their largest hub was at DFW and they were also heavily invested in it.

So, in summary, the Wright Amendment restricted SWA from growing at KDAL. It did not help it. If anything, it helped Braniff, AMR an DAL, but we all know how THAT turned out? Or do we? Read Hard Landing - Petzinger. That's a whole other enchilade. It also helped out the city of Dallas in terms of revenue.

Thanks, Hal, for that history review. Your last sentence is also a glimpse into what this was really all about. Remember that Jim Wright represented Fort Worth and Tarrant County. It has always been in Fort Worth's best interest to have DFW...and its revenue...to straddle the border between Dallas and Tarrant counties. Southwest's insistence in staying at Love Field, really threatened to pull some of that revenue back into Dallas county. As Southwest won its right to remain at Love Field, Jim Wright did what he could to minimize that threat.

It was quite the scene back then...major airlines vs. an upstart...Fort Worth/Tarrant County vs. Dallas...egos, revenue, politics...

That battle, fittingly, could only have played out in a state the size of Texas.

 

[waveflyer]

Sig- we can take the political debate to nonAv, but I liked what you wrote- we seem to have the same goal, just a difference of what gets us there- there's a bridge that can be built for that-

Again- educate me- the 17th didn't affect the election of congress, correct? Just senate. Jim Wright was a congressman- so I don't see the correlation

Halin- good read

 

[SIG600]

Sig- we can take the political debate to nonAv, but I liked what you wrote- we seem to have the same goal, just a difference of what gets us there- there's a bridge that can be built for that-

Again- educate me- the 17th didn't affect the election of congress, correct? Just senate. Jim Wright was a congressman- so I don't see the correlation

Halin- good read

Ok you got me there...