Another mandatory ASA letter from Tutt

[John Pennekamp]

If it is such a hard job-why do they always run again and again and again--Kind of like the Bush family. Lets lsee go fly a four day trip every week or go sit in a office for 2-3 days and be home all most every night. umh umh and not have to bid every month?

Well you guys stay the course while others leave and that is what people are doing LEAVING.

Do you even know who you're reps are? Go ahead and name them for us... without looking. All but one of them are on their first term in their status, so you don't know what you're talking about, again, with thre crack about them running over and over. Kindly educate yourself on the issue and quit shooting your mouth off, kid. Oh, and by the way, the reps fly the line too. They aren't in the office every day. You really are a dumb sh_t!

 

[ASADriver]

In an average year premium is 23% of my overall pay. The companies proposal does away with premium. You figure it out.

Unless you are under guarantee every month, that wouldn't be a 23% loss. If you go over guarantee, you would still get that 23% under this proposal. On top of that, I don't buy that you have 23% premium pay. Based on 75 hours of flying, that means you are getting about 17 hours of premium each month. I have to wave the BS flag on that one.

 

[BuzzSaw]

Hey Chuck,

Don't urinate on me and tell me it is raining.

BuzzSaw

 

[ASADriver]

And that right there is the problem. This management team has been screwing the pilots for the past 4 years, and you are losing patience with the union. That just tells everyone that you are either a management shill or not too bright.

I'm bright enough to realize that we are about to shrink while the union demands big increases. I'm bright enough to realize that none of us will benefit when we start losing 70 seaters. If you and others think you have "been screwed" by management for 4 years, then you aren't too bright. I wouldn't stay at a place that long if I thought they were screwing me. A bright person would leave if they felt that way.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I'm bright enough to realize that we are about to shrink while the union demands big increases. I'm bright enough to realize that none of us will benefit when we start losing 70 seaters. If you and others think you have "been screwed" by management for 4 years, then you aren't too bright. I wouldn't stay at a place that long if I thought they were screwing me. A bright person would leave if they felt that way.

Hey, Biscuit, since you're so unhappy with the union situation here, and believe this company is going down the toilet, I suggest you get your applications in. I hear Airtran is hiring.

You are completely out of whack with the desires of 90% of our pilot group. You clearly don't fit in here, and one of these days, you should learn to quit beating your head against the wall trying to convince that 90% they're wrong. Chinese definition of insanity? As much as you weigh, a heart attack or stroke is just around the corner. You'd better learn to relax before it's too late.

 

[atrdriver]

Unless you are under guarantee every month, that wouldn't be a 23% loss. If you go over guarantee, you would still get that 23% under this proposal. On top of that, I don't buy that you have 23% premium pay. Based on 75 hours of flying, that means you are getting about 17 hours of premium each month. I have to wave the BS flag on that one.

Look genius, premium, and every other type of pay that we have is based on a leg by leg basis. The company wants to take premium totally away, and get rid of the leg by leg basis for things like CNX pay. That costs money. And unless you have looked at my paycheck, don't tell me what percentage of it is premium pay. I know, I look at it every 2 weeks. And you can put your BS flag back where it came from, if it will fit.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Look genius, premium, and every other type of pay that we have is based on a leg by leg basis. The company wants to take premium totally away, and get rid of the leg by leg basis for things like CNX pay. That costs money. And unless you have looked at my paycheck, don't tell me what percentage of it is premium pay. I know, I look at it every 2 weeks. And you can put your BS flag back where it came from, if it will fit.

Oh, i'll fit. His rear end is about three feet wide.

 

[atrdriver]

I'm bright enough to realize that we are about to shrink while the union demands big increases. I'm bright enough to realize that none of us will benefit when we start losing 70 seaters. If you and others think you have "been screwed" by management for 4 years, then you aren't too bright. I wouldn't stay at a place that long if I thought they were screwing me. A bright person would leave if they felt that way.

Are you bright enough to realize that CMR took concessions and still shrank? Are you bright enough to realize that what we are asking for puts us on par with the the rest of the regional industry? Are you bright enough to realize that the companies scope proposal is worthless with it's current working? Apparantly not. And maybe you have an easy way out of here, but 95% of us don't. Many are trying to move on, me included, but for now we have to make this the best place we can to work. Taking a concessionary contract that will last for the next 8 to 9 years isn't the way to do that. Or maybe you think it is.

 

[sweptback]

Oh, i'll fit. His rear end is about three feet wide.

You, uh, might want to edit that...

 

[ASARJMan]

Oh, i'll fit. His rear end is about three feet wide.

Shoot, what you talking about fool! He be w-i-d-e-r than that. I recall a time when he JS'd on the brasilia. Holy mackeral, we'd have to go out the windows to evacuate. I mean he was wedged in there dog! What he be needing is about 6 straight months of line flying to educate his w-i-d-e arse!

VOTED IN FAVOR! (so let me go on strike please Mr Mediator)

 

[Bizjet]

OK, where is the unions counter. Put the d@mn information out for us to make informed decisions with. Show me the counter to this company offer. Many of us are losing patience with the union.

The majority of our pilots are losing patience with your whining. If you can't find the information it is likely because you couldn't find your a$$ with both hands. Crawl back into your GO hole you GO mole.

 

[Bizjet]

Everyone I fly with is tired of being in the dark! The union needs to put something out that they gave the company, heck the pilots don't even know what the union is asking for these days. Yeah they posted something back in may and june. Even the pilot 2 pilot rep. don't know what to tell us. I flew with one and ask another, they don't know whats going on!!

Flying with you would put anyone in the dark. You couldn't pour pi$$ out of a boot if the instructions were on the heel.

 

[Bizjet]

You must be one of those that was expecting a huge raise. This deal is a payraise for me. Not much of one, but given the industry downturn, I wasn't expecting much in terms of money. If this deal was put to a vote, I bet it would pass.

You will never know because this garbage will not be presented to the pilots for a vote Management Puke. 90% say NO and counting you as two votes has you under 1% so go back to sleep.

 

[Bizjet]

And that right there is the problem. This management team has been screwing the pilots for the past 4 years, and you are losing patience with the union. That just tells everyone that you are either a management shill or not too bright.

He is both!

 

["GO AROUND"]

OK, where is the unions counter. Put the d@mn information out for us to make informed decisions with. Show me the counter to this company offer. Many of us are losing patience with the union.

The union is tired and through negotiating with itself!!! The union will counter an offer from the company that has significant movement. They are ready to equal the company in movement if there was any.

The company had all the last proposals from the union and it was their BS to the mediator that brought him in to see the numbers on paper. Those numbers were obviously lower than what they told him to get this meeting.

He said that there needed to be significant movement on both sides to close the gap. That was not movement on the company's side and the union is not going to show significant movement to that so he re parked us.

That's why there was no counter to the company's counter-proposal by the union.

 

[scarlet]

IT really hurts me--oh no---!!! BIZ and john are right.....lets see Dave-TOM(tool)Nick--Dave--Danny--Pete--Andrew-- and I know the cnc of coarse so not to bad!!! if the ones that have left Jamie,Steven,Matt...

 

[ASARJMan]

Charlie tutu don't surf! ​

VOTED IN FAVOR!

 

[Richard Gozinya]

deleted

 

[ASADriver]

Hey, Biscuit, since you're so unhappy with the union situation here, and believe this company is going down the toilet, I suggest you get your applications in. I hear Airtran is hiring.

You are completely out of whack with the desires of 90% of our pilot group. You clearly don't fit in here, and one of these days, you should learn to quit beating your head against the wall trying to convince that 90% they're wrong. Chinese definition of insanity? As much as you weigh, a heart attack or stroke is just around the corner. You'd better learn to relax before it's too late.

90%??? 25% either voted no, or didn't vote at all. Some who voted yes, have said it was a mistake and they wish they could change their vote. 90% is a stretch there JP.

 

[ASADriver]

Look genius, premium, and every other type of pay that we have is based on a leg by leg basis. The company wants to take premium totally away, and get rid of the leg by leg basis for things like CNX pay. That costs money. And unless you have looked at my paycheck, don't tell me what percentage of it is premium pay. I know, I look at it every 2 weeks. And you can put your BS flag back where it came from, if it will fit.

Yes it is leg by leg, but if you go over guarantee, the new proposal will still take care of you. Block or better will replace premium pay unless you are under guarantee. Again, you won't take a 20% paycut.

 

[ASADriver]

Are you bright enough to realize that CMR took concessions and still shrank? Are you bright enough to realize that what we are asking for puts us on par with the the rest of the regional industry? Are you bright enough to realize that the companies scope proposal is worthless with it's current working? Apparantly not. And maybe you have an easy way out of here, but 95% of us don't. Many are trying to move on, me included, but for now we have to make this the best place we can to work. Taking a concessionary contract that will last for the next 8 to 9 years isn't the way to do that. Or maybe you think it is.

This offer isn't concessionary, and I would like the union to compare both offers to what the industry average is. If the company offer is concessionary and below industry average, it should be easy to show with hard facts comparing it to the industry average. Put it up against all the other carriers and let us decide.

 

[ASADriver]

The union is tired and through negotiating with itself!!! The union will counter an offer from the company that has significant movement. They are ready to equal the company in movement if there was any.

The company had all the last proposals from the union and it was their BS to the mediator that brought him in to see the numbers on paper. Those numbers were obviously lower than what they told him to get this meeting.

He said that there needed to be significant movement on both sides to close the gap. That was not movement on the company's side and the union is not going to show significant movement to that so he re parked us.

That's why there was no counter to the company's counter-proposal by the union.

GoAround, you are a P2P and your information conflicts with the ALPA update email we got. The ALPA Connection email says that we did counter with a counter offer. Could you confirm that? If so, can we see the counter offer?

 

[~~~^~~~]

This offer isn't concessionary.

As the board's resident scope nazi - how do you figure going from ASA pilots perform ASA's flying to ASA pilots get longevity for vacation and pay (not bidding) if SkyWest happens to be hiring the day that ASA's flying is transferred and if management wants to hire them is not hugely concessionary?

Who cares what the rest of the contract says if the company does not have to use ASA crews?

Is Doug Helms going to be a topped out SkyWest First Officer? I'm just asking the silly question to illustrate the point that the Comapny's scope offer is, silly.

Jerry Atkin says the plan isn't to whipsaw pilots. We like that too. Lets agree and write the contract up to reflect our intention.

 

[ASADriver]

As the board's resident scope nazi - how do you figure going from ASA pilots perform ASA's flying to ASA pilots get longevity for vacation and pay (not bidding) if SkyWest happens to be hiring the day that ASA's flying is transferred and if management wants to hire them is not hugely concessionary?

Who cares what the rest of the contract says if the company does not have to use ASA crews?

Is Doug Helms going to be a topped out SkyWest First Officer? I'm just asking the silly question to illustrate the point that the Comapny's scope offer is, silly.

Jerry Atkin says the plan isn't to whipsaw pilots. We like that too. Lets agree and write the contract up to reflect our intention.

What's to stop them from transferring flying under our current agreement?

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

I would need to see a trip rig as well. There are way too many 35 hour overnights. I have one coming up this week. 35 hours in MCN!

The 3.75 min day would cover that. If you have one of those 3 or 4 day trips that has a day in the hotel, you would get 3.75 hours for that day.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

The offer doesn't look bad to me. I would like to see better scope. The fact that we were parked again leads me to believe ALPA is still out in left field on their proposal.

By the way, the union says that those 90 seaters were never coming to ASA. If that is so, then why do they have EV N#s? Those of us in SLC are taxing past these EV 90 seaters everyday. I believe they were coming to ASA.

 

[ASACAPT]

The offer doesn't look bad to me. I would like to see better scope. The fact that we were parked again leads me to believe ALPA is still out in left field on their proposal.

By the way, the union says that those 90 seaters were never coming to ASA. If that is so, then why do they have EV N#s? Those of us in SLC are taxing past these EV 90 seaters everyday. I believe they were coming to ASA.

One question voice. Why should the ASA pilots fly the 50 seater for less than SkyWest and Chitaqua? If you can give me a good answer I will agree with you. Why should we agree to a duty rig that is less than SkyWest? Why should our duty rid not apply to CDO's when SkyWest's duty rig does?

Are these pilots better than us, since they deserve to fly for more than us according to you?

 

[atrdriver]

Yes it is leg by leg, but if you go over guarantee, the new proposal will still take care of you. Block or better will replace premium pay unless you are under guarantee. Again, you won't take a 20% paycut.

And again, you don't see my paycheck, so stop telling me how much I will lose through the loss of premium. I have figured it out, you haven't. I know what kind of cut I will take. In addition, why should out 50 drivers make 7 or 8 less per hour than the Skywest 50 drivers when they are topped out?

And Voice, yes, a 3.75 min day would somewhat take care of a 35 hour layover, but not as well as a real trip rig would, and it will ONLY take care of it if it is a min day on a day by day basis, not an average (like CMR had), which I haven't seen the language on yet.

 

[atrdriver]

The 3.75 min day would cover that. If you have one of those 3 or 4 day trips that has a day in the hotel, you would get 3.75 hours for that day.

And now I have seen it. The 3.75 min day is on a TRIP AVERAGE basis. Which does no good in that situation. As long as you averaged 3.75/day for the trip. Meaning day 1 could be 7 hours flying, day 2 1 hour, and day 3 7 hours, and you don't get anything for day 2 because you averaged 5 hours/day. That is not acceptable. And this is really a ZERO COST item for the company, as long as they build efficient schedules for us.

 

[jetjockey#1]

The 3.75 min day would cover that. If you have one of those 3 or 4 day trips that has a day in the hotel, you would get 3.75 hours for that day.

Gentlemen please disregard this moron, he/she/it is either management or plain out stupid. 3.75 min day, for a 4 day, would be less than 16 hours of pay. Management or a moron to accept that.