Another aircraft order from CAL

[RocketRob]

CO orders new 777s and 737s from Boeing
CO has added 27 aircraft to its firm order positions at Boeing, including eight new 777 and 19 new Next-Generation 737 (737NG) aircraft. The aircraft orders give CO the flexibility to replace less efficient airplanes and to pursue growth opportunities.
This new order brings CO’s total firm commitments to 111 new Boeing aircraft (25 Boeing 787s, eight Boeing 777s and 78 Boeing 737s) for delivery over the next six years. In addition, CO has options to purchase a total of 102 additional Boeing aircraft. CO has taken delivery of five 737NG aircraft this year and plans to take delivery of 27 additional 737NG aircraft by the end of 2008.
Already operating 20 777 aircraft globally, CO will use the eight additional aircraft announced today for long-haul international routes, such as the Newark Liberty-Shanghai route that is scheduled to start in 2009. The need for international widebodies is also driven by CO's commencement of service to London Heathrow next month, which represents the company largest-ever expansion into a single airport in one day. CO will begin service to Heathrow twice daily from Liberty and twice daily from Houston.
One of the world's most popular and reliable aircraft, the Boeing 737NGs feature advanced technology for greater operational efficiencies. The 19 additional 737NGs, along with other 737NG aircraft already on order, will give CO the flexibility to continue to grow while replacing less efficient 737 Classic aircraft, such as the company's 737-300 and 737-500 aircraft.

 

[General Lee]

CO orders new 777s and 737s from Boeing
CO has added 27 aircraft to its firm order positions at Boeing, including eight new 777 and 19 new Next-Generation 737 (737NG) aircraft. The aircraft orders give CO the flexibility to replace less efficient airplanes and to pursue growth opportunities.
This new order brings CO’s total firm commitments to 111 new Boeing aircraft (25 Boeing 787s, eight Boeing 777s and 78 Boeing 737s) for delivery over the next six years. In addition, CO has options to purchase a total of 102 additional Boeing aircraft. CO has taken delivery of five 737NG aircraft this year and plans to take delivery of 27 additional 737NG aircraft by the end of 2008.
Already operating 20 777 aircraft globally, CO will use the eight additional aircraft announced today for long-haul international routes, such as the Newark Liberty-Shanghai route that is scheduled to start in 2009. The need for international widebodies is also driven by CO's commencement of service to London Heathrow next month, which represents the company largest-ever expansion into a single airport in one day. CO will begin service to Heathrow twice daily from Liberty and twice daily from Houston.
One of the world's most popular and reliable aircraft, the Boeing 737NGs feature advanced technology for greater operational efficiencies. The 19 additional 737NGs, along with other 737NG aircraft already on order, will give CO the flexibility to continue to grow while replacing less efficient 737 Classic aircraft, such as the company's 737-300 and 737-500 aircraft.

Something has to replace all of the United 737-500s, older 737-300s, and their older 777s. Maybe this will help if you get together with them.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JohnQ]

Something has to replace all of the United 737-500s, older 737-300s, and their older 777s. Maybe this will help if you get together with them.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Hell, I wish we (DAL) were merging with CAL instead of NWA. It would be a killer airline--unfortunately the DOJ would never allow the airline that owns EWR to merge with another that has a very strong LGA and JFK presence, unless there were serious gate and route divestitures.

Just speculating...

 

[SKLJ]

Something has to replace all of the United 737-500s, older 737-300s, and their older 777s. Maybe this will help if you get together with them.

Sometimes you say something intelligent. Other times, like this post, you are a complete idiot.

 

[vetrider]

I'm envious. You guys get nice new Boeings and I get usapa and foam airplanes.

 

[johnsonrod]

Sometimes you say something intelligent. Other times, like this post, you are a complete idiot.

But GL would be correct if the CAL/UAL merger took place. You need to think bigger picture... UAL won't be adding squat.

 

[SKLJ]

What would it "help"? Would it "help" a CAL pilot's career expectations? Would it "help" in the merger of a seniority list? Should there be fences or no fences in dealing with all these new airplanes? Is it much "help" to any CAL pilot working for a profitable airline to take on a big airline that is really struggling? Just how would this "help"?

 

[ATRCA]

CAL pilots career expectations?
1. 3-5 yr upgrade
2. New A/C
3. New cities
4. Movement

UAL pilots career expectations?
1. 10 yr upgrade
2. Few deliveries
3. Stagnation
4. Shrinking capacity

Relative seniority is justified, anything else would be an undue windfall for the UAL folks. Fences should be in place. I am sure the UAL folks will want to protect the -400 along with DEN, SFO.........I don't blame them. Sound fair to me. I just can't see how anyone could articulate an advantaged position for the UAL pilots. This without even mentioning the financial position of UAL compared to CAL. Completely different worlds at the moment.

 

[Eagle757shark]

What would it "help"? Would it "help" a CAL pilot's career expectations? Would it "help" in the merger of a seniority list? Should there be fences or no fences in dealing with all these new airplanes? Is it much "help" to any CAL pilot working for a profitable airline to take on a big airline that is really struggling? Just how would this "help"?

Do you think that the bean counters care about your "Career Expectations"? NO! If Delta and Northwest merge, your CEO has said numerous times that Continental would not sit out of consolidation. These airline executives are thinking global. If United and Continental were to merge, it is true, many of the orders announced today would probable go to replace some of United's older aircraft. Truth is, as of this date United has NO airplanes on order.

 

[pipe]

CAL pilots career expectations?
1. 3-5 yr upgrade
2. New A/C
3. New cities
4. Movement

UAL pilots career expectations?
1. 10 yr upgrade
2. Few deliveries
3. Stagnation
4. Shrinking capacity

Relative seniority is justified, anything else would be an undue windfall for the UAL folks. Fences should be in place. I am sure the UAL folks will want to protect the -400 along with DEN, SFO.........I don't blame them. Sound fair to me. I just can't see how anyone could articulate an advantaged position for the UAL pilots. This without even mentioning the financial position of UAL compared to CAL. Completely different worlds at the moment.

I got news for you. Every pilot hired at every airline (with a very few exceptions) has been told 3-5 year upgrade. Actually happens about 5-10% of the time. In fact, I'm on my 4th airline and was told as little as one year but never more than five. If you think that is a legitimate expectation you're very new to this.

Oh yeah, you may upgrade in 3-5. Then downgrade. Then upgrade. Then sit reserve for six years. Then, voila! After more like 10 years you REALLY upgraded.

PIPE

 

[ATRCA]

I got news for you. Every pilot hired at every airline (with a very few exceptions) has been told 3-5 year upgrade. Actually happens about 5-10% of the time. In fact, I'm on my 4th airline and was told as little as one year but never more than five. If you think that is a legitimate expectation you're very new to this.

Oh yeah, you may upgrade in 3-5. Then downgrade. Then upgrade. Then sit reserve for six years. Then, voila! After more like 10 years you REALLY upgraded.

PIPE

AAhh.....it has nothing to do with "told." Guys are online in the left seat at CAL who have been with the company less than 3 yrs. That is FACT! I don't care if you are on airline number 25. Means nothing. A$$es in seats is what matters and right now there is 2.5 yr a$$ in the left seat at CAL. At UAL? ........not so much. You got 8K hrs, you have not been at this any longer than I.

 

[General Lee]

Looks like I AGAIN ignited a firestorm. Hey, I was just commenting on what COULD happen if DL/NWA goes through, followed by CAL/UAL. IF that happened, we all know UAL would need some new planes, and a newly merged company that already has ORDERS could help facilitate that.

Oh yeah, and to make Lowecur happy, UAL would have to give up 1 terminal and 500 slots at ORD to his beloved Jetblue and the E190s...

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[pipe]

AAhh.....it has nothing to do with "told." Guys are online in the left seat at CAL who have been with the company less than 3 yrs. That is FACT! I don't care if you are on airline number 25. Means nothing. A$$es in seats is what matters and right now there is 2.5 yr a$$ in the left seat at CAL. At UAL? ........not so much. You got 8K hrs, you have not been at this any longer than I.

That was a typo. I thought K stood for million. I have 8 million hours.

Look, I can't argue with that - if they're in the seat, they're in the seat. Trying to argue hypothetical career expectations is absolutely ridiculous though. Take a CAL guy with 25 years. Had you evaluated his/her career expectations 25 years ago, you'd have stapled him below the janitors in a merger with just about anyone. They far exceeded their earlier career expectations years ago.

You just can't merge lists on that basis because you CANNOT define career expectations. No one can.

PIPE

 

[cabby]

And in the nineties Continetal was bankrupt too. Career expectation are as cyclical as the airline business itself. Im sure with the 20 w/b you guys own you have a better chance for that seat compared to the 80 w/b at United. Oh and aircraft orders are just that orders. they don't mean anything until there on property.

 

[ATRCA]

That was a typo. I thought K stood for million. I have 8 million hours.

Look, I can't argue with that - if they're in the seat, they're in the seat. Trying to argue hypothetical career expectations is absolutely ridiculous though. Take a CAL guy with 25 years. Had you evaluated his/her career expectations 25 years ago, you'd have stapled him below the janitors in a merger with just about anyone. They far exceeded their earlier career expectations years ago.

You just can't merge lists on that basis because you CANNOT define career expectations. No one can.

PIPE

Fair enough. Like I said, I support relative seniority integration. Just seems like most talk about career expectations as a starting point and at this point CAL is clearly better than UAL in that regard.

BTW, No McCain in 08!

 

[Cpt Oveur]

CAL has been widebody limited for too long. The bean counters are already looking at lost revenue for IAH DXB routes and others. This just shows how their 787 deliveries are just guesses now. When they signed for aircraft 19 and 20 back in '05, they were confident they would be the last 777 orders. Now that the 787 timelines are not reliable, they're not going to wait until the 53rd 787 airframe (first one in line for CAL) to come online. Well done, Continental.

 

[ATRCA]

And in the nineties Continetal was bankrupt too. Career expectation are as cyclical as the airline business itself. Im sure with the 20 w/b you guys own you have a better chance for that seat compared to the 80 w/b at United. Oh and aircraft orders are just that orders. they don't mean anything until there on property.

Where an airline was 20 yrs ago or even 10 yrs ago means nothing. Less than 10 yrs ago UAL was the $hit, had the best contract and was the place everyone wanted to be. It is not that now. Nothing about who they used to be can change where they find themselves now. CAL does not "need" a merger. Most analysts have stated that CAL is the strongest domestic airline and would do best alone. Flip side, Tilton has been talking about merger as a survival strategy for quite a while now.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Where an airline was 20 yrs ago or even 10 yrs ago means nothing. Less than 10 yrs ago UAL was the $hit, had the best contract and was the place everyone wanted to be. It is not that now. Nothing about who they used to be can change where they find themselves now. CAL does not "need" a merger. Most analysts have stated that CAL is the strongest domestic airline and would do best alone. Flip side, Tilton has been talking about merger as a survival strategy for quite a while now.

In the current landscape they are the strongest company. However, if NWA/DAL combine, CAL cannot compete against a company with strong Transatlantic, Pacific, and South American presence. SVP of Ops Mark Moran and Smiseck have said to many pilot groups that if a merger occurs, CAL will do whatever it needs to do to remain competitive, including merge with another carrier. Merging with UAL has been a rumor for years. Seeing United execs, attorneys, ex-execs in the Houston HQ doesn't do anything to stop the rumors either.

 

[ATRCA]

In the current landscape they are the strongest company. However, if NWA/DAL combine, CAL cannot compete against a company with strong Transatlantic, Pacific, and South American presence. SVP of Ops Mark Moran and Smiseck have said to many pilot groups that if a merger occurs, CAL will do whatever it needs to do to remain competitive, including merge with another carrier. Merging with UAL has been a rumor for years. Seeing United execs, attorneys, ex-execs in the Houston HQ doesn't do anything to stop the rumors either.

I agree completely. I have a healthy respect for United in particular the UAL ALPA and the unity of their pilot group. I'm not trying to throw those guys under the bus. Right now CAL is a stronger airline and CAL pilots appear to have more to lose.

 

[4got2flare]

Amazing the General is always thumping his chest about Big D orders. Hrmm... new to you China MD-90's and 10 737-700's. New to you 757's that have etops (copying CAL again) and a couple 777's. Man your on a role... How do you play that into your NW bid?