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I fail to understand where avbug is coming from on this one.

IFR in a C-150 is not inherently more dangerous than any other single engine airplane (just a lot slower).

NW_pilot sounds like he has taken a proactive aproach to fixing up and maintaining his airplane. He also sounds like he understands the inherent risks and reduces them as best he can.


Sure, we would all like to fly around in super reliable buisnes jets with redundant systems, but none of us will ever be able to aford that.

There is nothing risk free about hurling yourself through the air at over 100MPH in an aluminum can. Flying is as safe or unsafe as the pilot makes it. Each pilot must determin himself what level of risk he is willing to accept.
 
I bought my first 150 in 1981, it was a '77 model. I liked it because it had the pre select flaps, and better than a 152 because it 40 deg vs 30 deg, and a 12 volt electrical system. Twelve volt compontents are more affordable than comparable 24 volt items.

When I purchased 704JG, it had about 550 hours on it. It wasn't used as a trainer. At 1900 hours on the engine, I decided to replace it. The vacuum pump that was on it was the original cast iron unit that was bolted on when the plane was built. The key to pump longevity is a.) Keep engine cleaning fluids away from the pump and drive coupling, b.) replace the vacuum relief valve and instrument air filters on a regular basis.
 
USMCmech said:
I fail to understand where avbug is coming from on this one.

I fail to understand why he thinks others should be restricted from it. He can do what he damn well pleases with or without a C150 but he has no business telling others they are stupid or they should not do this or that.

Restriction of our lives to exclude every last thing that might be unsafe is what is happening folks. Soon we will all be stored in a vat of jello cushioning inside climate controlled rooms, fed green goop through IV lines, and never allowed to venture out into the dangerous outdoors.
 
Sounds like a blast....Why wouldn't you take a 150 IFR.

I've taken single engine planes coast to coast border to border several times through all types of weather and had a blast doing it.

I think I've had two alternator failures and one vacume failure. I've also had partial power loss etc....

Sometimes I think people forget airplanes flew before FMS and Jet A.
 
You guys just don't get it do you?

Ever wonder why AVbugs posts seem to make some sense but don't quite ring true?

Simple. We went throught his about 3 years ago but it didn't stick I see. Back then he actually had a profile claiming all sorts of quals.

I queried him several times on some and he eventually removed all of them and now has nothing listed.

Well, even then I suspected he wasn't really a pilot. I knew he had aviation knowledge so I figured either crewman of some sort or mechanic.

Here are some standout gems from his past posts.

Avbug once claimed to have been a firefighting pilot who flew into burning woodlands. I shyt you not when I tell you he claimed to have ingested tree branches and limbs down his engines. I'm not kidding. He claimed to fly so low he actually had tree limbs ingested into his engines. Thats what he said.

Then his next gem was when he argued vehemently that an onboard fire does not necessarily constitute an emergency. Thats right, NOT an emergency. He even ridiculed people saying that if it went out then it was no big deal. How insane is that?

In short, he's a fruitcake. If it wasn't for his seemingly lucid behavior at times he'd have been written off long ago. One of the biggest problems is how he confronts people who catch on to his ridiculous claims and beliefs. He attacks them and attempts to shame and discredit them. I think he might even have been a moderator at one time until they figured out how nuts he is.

My advice is to simply ignore him. Don't engage. The guy has over 4000 posts here so he obviously has no real life. Don't humor him. He won't go away but it might slow him down a little. And for petes sake if youre a newby don't listen to a word he says.

My true evaluation of him is that he's watched the movie 'Always' about 10,000 times and thinks its real. Do me a favor. Don't tell him it wasn't. He might crack finally.





avbug said:
That's the point, isn't it?
 
nitrogen said:
Ever wonder why AVbugs posts seem to make some sense but don't quite ring true?

Simple. We went throught his about 3 years ago but it didn't stick I see. Back then he actually had a profile claiming all sorts of quals.

I queried him several times on some and he eventually removed all of them and now has nothing listed.

Well, even then I suspected he wasn't really a pilot. I knew he had aviation knowledge so I figured either crewman of some sort or mechanic.

Here are some standout gems from his past posts.

Avbug once claimed to have been a firefighting pilot who flew into burning woodlands. I shyt you not when I tell you he claimed to have ingested tree branches and limbs down his engines. I'm not kidding. He claimed to fly so low he actually had tree limbs ingested into his engines. Thats what he said.
I know who Avbug is. I've never met him, but I know his name from having read his posts for many years (much more the 3 years) and having corresponded with him on a number of occasions over the years. No, I'm not going to name him, but I will say that I have looked him up in the FAA database, and he does indeed posess the certificates he says he does. His pilot certificate has a type rating for an airplane which he would be extremely unlikely to have unlesss he flew for a specific air tanker company. He also holds another fairly uncommon ceritificate which would be consistent with having crewed another type which that same company was the sole operator. You may disagree with Avbug, but he's not a fraud. He's got the certificates and ratings he says he does.
 
Avbug once claimed to have been a firefighting pilot who flew into burning woodlands. I shyt you not when I tell you he claimed to have ingested tree branches and limbs down his engines. I'm not kidding. He claimed to fly so low he actually had tree limbs ingested into his engines. Thats what he said.

That's over burning woodlands, not into burning woodlands, thanks. And owing to the resource value of the aircraft, it's seldom restricted to woodlands, but wildlands, hence the term "wildland firefighter."

How low do you find disbelievable? One hundred feet? Fifty feet? Ten feet? Two feet? Wheels touching the surface during a drop? I did all of the above...each season in a variety of different kinds of aircraft, and I've encountered burning materials, often as large as 2X4's, over a thousand feet above fires. Entering an area with a hot column and black smoke...all kinds of stuff can be found.

Ingested tree branches and limbs, and hit them with wings, canopy, propellers? You betcha. If you'd ever been there and done that, you wouldn't post such stupidity...of course that happens.

Remember the big California fires the year before last? The first day six aircraft had broken windscreens from flying debris. It happens. On top of that, in some places, we get fairly large birds...birds that use the heat and the ridge lift to climb, and they occasionally provide damage and some excitement. I've had birds come right into the cockpit more than a few times.



Then his next gem was when he argued vehemently that an onboard fire does not necessarily constitute an emergency. Thats right, NOT an emergency. He even ridiculed people saying that if it went out then it was no big deal.

An onboard fire does NOT necessarily constitute an emergency. You needn't apologize because you haven't the experience to understand that.

Now I requested rescue trucks twice this year. Once as a precaution after landing, and another time after requesting a closed runway be opened for me during a systems failure that I deemed requiring the extra attention. The evoloution turned out well and to no event, but it could have been different. The tower at that field closed the airspace, put trucks on the runway, moved men, barricades, and equipment on my behalf, and cleared me to land on a closed runway. I have no hesitation using emergency services as the occasion requires, but I have said it many times before, and will probably say it many times again when dunces such as yourself who lack the requisite experience to know otherwise post as you do...a fire does NOT necessarily constitute an emergency. It may, it may not.

For me, most of the time a fire isn't an emergency at all. It's my job.

I knew he had aviation knowledge so I figured either crewman of some sort or mechanic.

Been a crewman, and I am a mechanic. Been a DOM (X2), and an inspector, too. Got a problem with that?

I think he might even have been a moderator at one time until they figured out how nuts he is.

I was offered that position here, and on several other boards. I said no, as I felt being in that position would oblige me to be less than candid in my statements.

My true evaluation of him is that he's watched the movie 'Always' about 10,000 times and thinks its real.

John Goodman was great in that film, and I've been a Richard Dreyfuss fan ever since Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind. However, the movie was hollywood's finest, and nothing like the business, by any stretch of the imagination. For one thing, we don't have Holly Hunter...

For another, it's really hard to exude glory and guts after you stink of smoke and sweat after a full day in a very hot cockpit, and nobody sees you sitting for a half hour after shutdown at the end of the day, trying to get feeling back in your toes, and hoping to be able to bend your knees enough to climb out of the cockpit...or sitting for days under a wing without electricity, running water, or indoor plumbing, waiting for a fire. Such a glamorous life. The movie didn't emphasize the cuts on your hands that last all season from safety wire, the burns from working around hot exhuast, the fact that every item of clothing I owned for years was soaked in 60 weight motor oil and smelled alternately like smoke, stale sweat and body odor, or avgas or Jet A.

Certainly there are occasions when a few of the elements of the movie might occur, but for the most part it was a delightful flight of fancy that still makes a good movie, even though it's far from reality. And as for watching it ten thousand times..a few dozen, maybe. But if watching movies a few dozen times made me into whatever was portrayed, I guess I'd be a character out of an Indiana Jones movie, or Airplane, or Hot Shots, or Roxanne, or Phenomenon, or any of the other movies that bear watching again and again. If only life were that simple.

One of the biggest problems is how he confronts people who catch on to his ridiculous claims and beliefs.

People like you?

He attacks them and attempts to shame and discredit them.

If you insist. Shame on you. Clearly your experience is narrow, your memory short and I have every reason to believe that your eyes are too close together.

Happy, now?
 
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Myself, I'd love to meet the guy and shake his hand. I've frequented web boards and followed his hardcore etiquette for something like seven years. He is without a doubt different, but so am I as far as that goes.
At times, I've wished to find him and go a few rounds, but it'd be my luck he trained Ali too.
 
Avbug,

This is what puzzles me.

In your posts you come across as extreamly cautious, almost to a flaut. IE calling single engine IFR unsafe in any plane and anybody who does it needs to have their head examined.

YET, you have flown air tankers which is one of the riskiest jobs in aviation. I have spoken to few pilot who have flown tankers, and obviously they are very safe pilots, yet the inherent risks are there and cannot be elimnated.

This seems inconsistant.


All that said, Avbug is the guy who I want doing the annual on my plane, giving me a BFR, ect. He obviously knows what he is talking about. I may make a different judgement call, but his input wouldn't steer you wrong.

He is a valuable asset to this message board.
 
USMCmech said:
This is what puzzles me.

In your posts you come across as extremely cautious, almost to a fault. IE calling single engine IFR unsafe in any plane and anybody who does it needs to have their head examined.

YET, you have flown air tankers which is one of the riskiest jobs in aviation. I have spoken to few pilot who have flown tankers, and obviously they are very safe pilots, yet the inherent risks are there and cannot be elimnated.

This seems inconsistant.
Yep, I've thought the same thing. No offense Avbug... most of the time I like to read your posts, well done, articulate, thoughtful, etc. Then there's other times where you come across as an egomaniac who looks down on others who dare not have the same experience as you. Single engine IFR? Big deal, it happens. Why give a guy grief and talk down to him for doing something you wouldn't do yourself?
 
YET, you have flown air tankers which is one of the riskiest jobs in aviation. I have spoken to few pilot who have flown tankers, and obviously they are very safe pilots, yet the inherent risks are there and cannot be elimnated.

Flying tankers isn't about accepting risk, any more than any other kind of utility flying. It's about eliminating it. I don't approach flying an air tanker any different than I do flying a passenger leg in a certificate operation. I look at every aspect of the flight, before it ever starts, and work to eliminate risk.

When you or I line up today for a takeoff, we have precalculated our takeoff distance. We have refusal speeds, we have proceedures to undertake in the event of engine failures, equipment losses, etc. We don't execute the takeoff without a full fare of backup proceedures and the performance to handle whatever conceivable emergency might arise.

Flying a tanker is no different. From daily briefings about airspace, weather, hazards, relative humidities, fuel moistures, resource availabilities, etc, to the aircraft preflight, to systems checks and all that goes with flying on a normal sortie, we do every bit as much preparation. When we depart we have frequencies locally, enroute, at the fire, and for troops on the ground as well as air contacts. We have a list by aircraft callsign of all the aircraft going to the fire or that are expected to get called to the fire. We have a listing of hazards, obstacles, etc. We're even briefed on powerlines that might be out there. If we're entering airspace that needs coordination, a dispatch center jumps on it, and we work with them before we ever get there.

Approaching the fire there are specific proceedures and limitations as to how far we can go before establishing communications. We have a nocom ring which we can't enter without being in full communication, and for inexperienced pilots, there are special proceedures requiring aerial supervision and other aircraft on site, as well as daylight and weather requirements. Over the fire, we plan the drop carefully, have exits planned in the event of an emergency, and treat it just as professionally and carefully as any other aspect of professional aviation. Perhaps more so because we realize the significance of what's out there.

Risk? It's not about accepting risk, it's about eliminating it. I may be given a direction by an incident commander or an air attack, an air supervision module (ASM) or a Leadplane. I will evaluate it based on the existing ambient conditions, my aircraft performance, the potential outcome with respect to the drop and effectiveness, the fuel, the exit and entry to the drop, etc. If I don't like it, I refuse it, or tell the person with whom I'm working how it can better be done. We work together. In some cases, another aircraft without a load, a leadplane or ASM, goes down there and makes the run before me, checks it for exit, hazards, turbulence, winds, etc. We don't leave things to chance, and we avoid risk like the plague.

All someone need say is "safety of flight," and there's no arguing about it. If I see something over the fire that's not safe and say so, there is no more discussion about it; that word is now law. Anybody out there can do the same thing, and that observation is going to be respected. And we do it, too.

I got a commendation for the previously mentioned landing in which I called for the trucks; it was a safety award. The agencies and the personnel in them place a very high premium on safety for ground and air operations. Even though it occured during a very active and very violent fire when air support was desperately needed, and even though the aircraft ended up being down for four days away from it's home base and unable to support the fire at it's busiest time, no questions were asked, because taking risk and chance isn't part of the operation. Everybody works hard as a team to eliminate it.

We load retardant, and someone takes specfic gravity readings of the loaded or loading product to ensure that it's weight is correct, which is critical to an already heavy aircraft. Safety personnel are available on the ground to ensure nobody gets hurt when I'm hotloading, looking the aircraft over for damage, ensuring that I have water in a very hot cockpit, or anything else I need. We do everything possible in every way to ensure that we're available and alive to do it again tomorrow. This isn't a thrill seeking business; it's a professionally run operation. It's not about taking risks, it's about coming home at the end of the day to do it again.

Why give a guy grief and talk down to him for doing something you wouldn't do yourself?

Precisely for that reason. Because I won't do it, because I know it's dangerous, and a big risk. Because I feel strongly enough about it to say something.

A pilot was lost over a fire a few years ago. Gary Nagel, flying an S-2, was killed on a fire in California. It was very rough on that fire. A leadplane was rolled over and damaged over the fire; winds and turbulence can make it a violent place. But something happened in which the system broke down. That fall at the biennial meeting in Reno, several pilots stood to say that they knew it was bad, they thought it was dangerous. They were waiting for someone to shut the show down, to call it for safety reasons and put everybody on the ground. It wasn't until Gary was killed that someone finally took that step.

I don't believe in waiting that long, or remaining silent. Nor do I feel any great drive to remain exceptionally tactful about it when the point is worth making. I've never been one for tapdancing around the hat.

I flew on a fire on a very steep area southeast of Grangeville, ID, some years ago, in a PB4Y-2. Two tankers were assigned to the fire, with a number of ground troops working it directly. It was very steep, in a canyon, and the winds were stiff. It didn't look too bad on the approach, but on our drop, we got slammed hard. I made the call. The person with whom I was flying wanted to return when we were given the call we long to hear "Load and Return." I said no. He said yes, and I told him fine, you come back here on your own...which wasn't happening. The air attack officer overhead listened, and grounded both tankers from off the fire. Smart move. The other tanker, coming out of McCall, wasn't happy, and was very vocal about not being happy with my decision. I was in the doghouse, but it was a safety related call, which I stand by today, which I've made before, and will make again.

Single engine IFR? Single pilot IFR is by far the most dangerous thing we can do in general aviation. We fly instruments such that it's a routine thing today, but single engine single pilot IFR in a small underpowered limited performance piston airplane with limited nav and com capability, no autopilt or auto flight control system, and failure-prone systems is chock full of risks that cannot be eliminated or even scarcely mitigated. It's about accepting the risk, which is an unprofessional and unsafe act...generally undertaken by the inexperienced and those who haven't lived or flown long enough to know better.

In your posts you come across as extreamly cautious, almost to a flaut.

I certainly hope so, because that's how I am in person, too.

I'm alive for that very reason. Perhaps not tomorrow, for that I can't say. But today, I am. A combination of caution, learning the hard way, and taking great pains to learn from other's mistakes in order to not repeat them...I sincerely believe whence I speak, and for that reason, I'm not quick to keep quiet about those beliefs.

If others choose not to listen, that's their choice and their problem, but somethings need to be said.
 
Avbug, first off, know that I have a great respect for you, the experiance you have, and your input. I always try to learn from anybody who has "been there and done that".

However, I beg to differ with your philosophy

Risk? It's not about accepting risk, it's about eliminating it.

That is simply not possible on ANY flight in ANY airplane.

Any time you take off in an airplane you accept some risk (or drive a car, ride a bike, or stand on a ladder for that matter).

Certianly flying a older airplane, at max gross weight, in the mountians, at high density altitude,over a raging fire, in low visibilty, around other airplanes who may or may not be on freq, is filled with risk. It is only because of safety minded profesionals like yourself that prevents this type of flying from claiming more lives than it easily could.

In my mind being a safe profesional pilot is about not taking any unnessacery risks, and minimizing the ones that can't be eliminated.



I am afraid that when you tell someone that he is "stupid" for takeing a risk that you may disagree with, yet is not outside of conventional wisdom, you place yourself in danger of "crying wolf" and being ignored when you do have something important to say.

That's my 2 cents.
 
That is simply not possible on ANY flight in ANY airplane.

It's possible on every flight, every aircraft, all the time.

You find one risk at a time, and eliminate it. No magic wand to wave making everything all better, but instead planning, forethought, calculation, good decision making, proper inspection, and preparation.

Flight in a single in bad weather? Eliminate the weather. Wait for it to clear. Flight in single over the mountains at night? Eliminate the mountains and go day, or pick a pass, or go the long route over roads that offer a known surface.

Heavy takeoff? Reduce weight, plan for a downhill departure with lowering terrain. Wait until later in the day or leave earlier in the morning.

Find risk, eliminate risk. One at a time. If you find yourself accepting risk, you're justifying, and justification is truly the narcotic of the soul. Addicting, mind numbing, foolish, deadly.

A popular copout is the assertion that "everything in life has risk, so this is probably okay." Justification.

"We can never eliminate risk, so we need to learn to live with it." Justification.

"I'm a careful pilot so I can handle bigger risks than less careful pilots." Justification.

"I've flown a thousand hours without a problem, so I can go another thousand with the comfort of knowing nothing will happen." Justification.

Justification doesn't make anything right, it's a just a way of lying to yourself to tell yourself it's going to be allright. You can tell yourself you're on the ground when you're not, but that doesn't reduce your distance from the ground. You can tell yourself you're safe, when you're not, and that doesn't eliminate danger or risk, either.

Find it, take proactive steps to eliminate it.

You punch me. I don't pretend it's not coming. I block. I step into it and take your mind. I step back where you can't hit me. I step aside and let you pass. I shoot you. I use your momentum to toss you. I strike you first. I don't justify standing there and getting hit by saying I'm a big boy, I can take it. I don't justify myself by saying you're probably a poor aim and will likely miss. I don't justify by assuming you can't punch hard. I don't tell myself I've been hit before, so this will probably not be a big deal. I take action to meet the needs of the occasion and eliminate the risk that standing before your fist presents to me. Justification is failure, it is suicide, it is falsehood.

The beliefe that one cannot eliminate risk, that one must accept it, is justification, and it is a lie. Don't be trapped by that lie...be creative, find ways to eliminate risk, not live with it.
 

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