AMR furloughs?

[magrs]

Any news?

 

[FreightGod]

Nope, and no WARN letters sent out.

Don't think they will furlough, reserves are flying up to 98 hours per month..

Nuff said.

 

[stlflyguy]

I had heard that WARN letters don't have to be sent if there aren't enough people affected that reside in one specific area. Any truth in this?

200 pilots spread about the country might meet that requirement.

stlflyguy

 

[FreightGod]

Not sure..Thought WARN have to be sent anytime reduction in force due to unexpected economic, etc....

I should know, 5 furloughs and counting.

 

[stlflyguy]

Found a decent link regarding WARN letters. http://www.hrhero.com/topics/warn.html

I think it can be interpreted that a WARN letter might not be necessary.

stlflyguy

 

[jonjuan]

Nope, and no WARN letters sent out.

Don't think they will furlough, reserves are flying up to 98 hours per month..

Nuff said.

Nuff????

 

[Draginass]

I'm certain that the company will issue either WARN letters or formal notification to the union if any furloughs are pending.

If AA does furlough, they could expect a very ugly reaction. Pilots that just quit jobs in the last year to return to AA, just to be dumped back in the street like itinerant day-labor, will probably not be inclined to work with enthusiasm up to the last day. Nor will it help the already rock-bottom relationship with the APA that Mr. Arpey has cultivated in the past few years.

Further, any layoffs, along with the high number of early retirements, will exacerbate the probably already violated 7300 AA pilot staffing floor when the APA can force the divestiture of American Eagle.

 

[Flyby1206]

Further, any layoffs, along with the high number of early retirements, will exacerbate the probably already violated 7300 AA pilot staffing floor when the APA can force the divestiture of American Eagle.

I thought falling below the 7300 mark meant that:

4. Cockpit Crewmember Floor.
In the event that the number of cockpit crewmembers employed by the
Company on the American Airlines Pilots Seniority List goes below 7300, the
parties agree that the commuter exception contained in this Section D. shall be
terminable at the option of APA following a 90-day period to provide an
opportunity for discussion. If APA elects to require termination of the commuter
exception, the Company shall thereafter have a reasonable time to complete
the disposition of the operations covered by this Section D. during which period
the parties shall meet in good faith and discuss the issues related to such
termination. Pilots added to the American Airlines Pilots Seniority List by way of
seniority merger shall not count in calculating the number of cockpit
crewmembers for purposes of this section 4.


Wouldnt that mean all regional flying regardless of wholly owned or not would be ended? I dont see how divesting Eagle would be a win for APA in regards to this 7300 issue.

 

[General Lee]

I thought falling below the 7300 mark meant that:

4. Cockpit Crewmember Floor.
In the event that the number of cockpit crewmembers employed by the
Company on the American Airlines Pilots Seniority List goes below 7300, the
parties agree that the commuter exception contained in this Section D. shall be
terminable at the option of APA following a 90-day period to provide an
opportunity for discussion. If APA elects to require termination of the commuter
exception, the Company shall thereafter have a reasonable time to complete
the disposition of the operations covered by this Section D. during which period
the parties shall meet in good faith and discuss the issues related to such
termination. Pilots added to the American Airlines Pilots Seniority List by way of
seniority merger shall not count in calculating the number of cockpit
crewmembers for purposes of this section 4.


Wouldnt that mean all regional flying regardless of wholly owned or not would be ended? I dont see how divesting Eagle would be a win for APA in regards to this 7300 issue.

I don't think the TWA guys count, and if they furlough guys that are mostly ex TWA pilots, it may not go below that number. (That is what I was told by an AA Captain)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[stlflyguy]

As I understand it, he's wrong. The number of TWA pilots is irrelevant in the calculation of the 7300 pilot floor. They have to be either nAAtives or former Air Cal. Reno and TWA don't count. If pilots are currently recalled at a rate keeping pace with retirements then the number of nAAtives still decreases as all recalls right now are former TWA.

I guess this allows APA the option to terminate the exception to the scope clause that allows commuter operations.

stlflyguy

 

[Draginass]

Who says it necessarily has to be terminated? It's some pretty heavy leverage, however.

AE has mostly 37/50 seat airplanes that are so economically obsolete that AMR want to sell the whole kit and kaboodle . . .only there's no market for an obsolete airline.

Maybe farm out the small jet stuff to contractors and bring as many 70-90 seat jets to AA as they want.

Oh, and any pilots from mergers, acquisitions, on furlough, etc. do NOT count in the 7300.

 

[magrs]

Apparently no WARN letters went out, so the Oct 1 furloughs are off the tabvle. I'm not really keeping up with the 7300 number, but it definitely sounds like the APA has the ball in their court. Hopefully, they'll get a few more guys back on property as an outcome.

 

[Draginass]

Apparently no WARN letters went out, so the Oct 1 furloughs are off the tabvle. I'm not really keeping up with the 7300 number, but it definitely sounds like the APA has the ball in their court. Hopefully, they'll get a few more guys back on property as an outcome.

Actually as the contract is written, recalling furloughees won't help because they are almost all TWA now, which don't count towards the 7300 floor. However, of course, everything is negotiable.

And in the meantime, the numbers of early retirees climbs. Could well be a long line of guys walking out the door on 30 Aug.

 

[FreightGod]

Could well be a long line of guys walking out the door on 30 Aug.

Sure hope so: Anybody even remotely close to retirement and with half a brain ougth to bail asap before more doo hits the fan.

I would, but some of these guys are all ego and without a fancy Captain's job they are nothing...Fly till ya die.uke:

 

[magrs]

Today a buddy told me the APA is suggesting to its membership that they shouldn't anticipate an agreement on the furloguh mitigation deal.

What does this do to possible furloughs and or recalls?

 

[GuppyWN]

You guys are unreal. You write a contract provisions that purposefully exclude TWA and Reno pilots? No wonder you're labor relations are all screwed up.

If I am missing something I apologize ahead of time.

Gup

 

[magrs]

I think it actually benefits ALL the pilots. In short, a way to keep management from shrinking the airline below 7300.

 

[aa73]

I think it actually benefits ALL the pilots. In short, a way to keep management from shrinking the airline below 7300.

Ding, ding, ding!

If we were to have included all TWA/Reno pilots, it would've taken longer to hit the floor. Nothing personal.

 

[magrs]

aa73,

Question is, do we see furloughs first or recalls?

More importantly, when?

 

[Draginass]

aa73,

Question is, do we see furloughs first or recalls?

More importantly, when?

Lots of moving parts right now. Factors are the shortage of pilots now, the drawdown of flight/aircraft, and most importantly, the number 30 Aug retirements.

 

[GuppyWN]

I think it actually benefits ALL the pilots. In short, a way to keep management from shrinking the airline below 7300.

I hear what you're saying but seems like it would have been just as easy to add XX number of pilots to the floor and include all your brothers into the equation thus raising the floor. Guess it's just me.

Gup

 

[Wino]

I hear what you're saying but seems like it would have been just as easy to add XX number of pilots to the floor and include all your brothers into the equation thus raising the floor. Guess it's just me.

Gup

The point of the clause was that they couldn't buy another airline to fix their floor problems. So Reno and TWA don't count against the 7300. This is VERY good. It actually motivates the company to recall EVERY TWA pilots and get down to the 500 or so natives that are below TWA, and then hire more off the street.

Otherwise they could just buy Airtran, park the jets and say screw you to us...

Adding TWA would do nothing other than reward management for aquiring airlines which is something we definately don't want.

Cheers
Wino

 

[aa73]

Lots of moving parts right now. Factors are the shortage of pilots now, the drawdown of flight/aircraft, and most importantly, the number 30 Aug retirements.

All correct... to which I might add, the Co has not sent out WARN letters on Aug 1... so the Oct 1 furlough date will not happen. IMO they will not furlough.

 

[AA717driver]

Guppy--You don't understand AMR. You can't just go in and ask them for a re-write of the contract. You have to give up something (generally worth ten times what you get in return) to get what you want.

There is a reason AMR has the worst labor relations in the business--they've EARNED it. TC

AA73--I agree with no furloughs. Word on the street is that they had to announce some pilot furloughs since 1700 mechanics are going. The FA furloughs got mitigated by PLOA's and early outs.