America's newest frequent flyer

[WMUSIGPI]

I got this story second-hand:

A female Jetstream FO boarded the pax, shut the door, did a quick "welcome aboard" and went up and took her station. About a week later she got a call from the CP about a passenger complaint.

One of the pax had written a nasty-gram to the company fussing that the stewardess didn't even give him a drink. She just shut the door then went up front and talked to the pilot for the whole flight.

If ignorance is bliss, why aren't there more happy people?

However, I do agree with PsubS. Not for public consumption.

The CP should have been given a week off without pay for wasting the FO's time to call her about this....

We had a FA here write up a crew for "violating sterile below 10K" When they were all called into the CP office to discuss the issue she was asked how she knew they were violating it. She proudly pointed to her watch and described how it had an altimeter feature in it and it never showed them climb above 10K feet. The CP immediately told the pilots sorry for the trouble and then had a nice long chat with that flight attendant (we only fly PRESSURISED airplanes)

 

[crj567]

Do any of you Einsteins realize that this guy is right about pilots bitching in front of the customers?


If you bitch (and, true, that is our God-given right as pilots, eh?), do so in private!

I admit that he's a bit righteous about writing the bosses about your crappy attitude, but the solution is simple. Don't air your dirty laundry in public...they're paying your salary, and they don't want to hear it.

It's not too much to ask of a professional.

-Well- Maybe the fact that the entire public is convinced that we all work 8 days a month and earn $300k begins to wear after a while. People have an outlandish impression of what our job entails-and they hate us for it.

-All jobs have their ups and downs, but I-for one-am really getting tired of people telling me how "rich" I am and how "little" I do for a living. Maybe this is part of the reason these guys bitch in public-to let people know we all have our own problems.

-Everyone else bitches about their jobs in public-why the hell can't we?

 

[whymeworry?]

Do any of you Einsteins realize that this guy is right about pilots bitching in front of the customers?


If you bitch (and, true, that is our God-given right as pilots, eh?), do so in private!

I admit that he's a bit righteous about writing the bosses about your crappy attitude, but the solution is simple. Don't air your dirty laundry in public...they're paying your salary, and they don't want to hear it.

It's not too much to ask of a professional.

Ahhhh... yeeeeeeeeeeeah. They don't pay our salary. If they did a simple $3 a ticket raise is all we need to get our contract back to where it was 10 yrs ago. Wanna' bet they're not willing to pay that amount?

 

[slackass]

Had a disembarking passanger tell me on the dash-8 that I need to lean out the engines a little more at altitude because it looked like they were running rich.

 

[Dude]

Good points on both sides here. It is unprofessional and tasteless to complain in the presence of the customer. If you have a complaint, it is likely an issue that the passenger can do nothing about so why bring it to their attention? There is plenty wrong with the industry, but it's not that guy's fault. If you want to affect change, put your complaint in the hands of those that can actually do something-not your passengers'.

The current generation of pilots confuses me. Here we stand demanding better treatment, better pay, better benefits, and yet we conduct ourselves with little pride and conviction. Pilots are wearing earbuds in the terminal; they don't wear hats anymore; their uniforms look terrible; and the fitness code has been thrown out the window. I see nothing about this profession, from the passenger's perspective, that would inspire any confidence, trust, or conviction to demand better for the pilots. Everyone's "give a damn" is busted. I understand it's a systemic problem started many years ago, but image is a hard thing to fix. Once the public has lost the trust of the pilots, it's gone. Getting it back will be a lot harder than it was to lose it.

When I ride the van to the hotel, there is usually a crewmember bitching about the something the entire ride right in front of passengers on the van. What an embarrassment. These people don't give a damn about your gripes. They want to get where they are going will as little collateral damage as possible. Between the TSA, customer no-service agents, baggage issues, delays, and flight crews being bitchy, it's a miracle people even fly for a $25 ticket. The only reason I travel by air while off is because it's free. If I had to pay, I'd drive.

 

[waveflyer]

One thing we have not done well with is PR. The poster above has it right- I had passengers who thought I was rich as a turboprop FO. Friends who literally did not believe me when I told them about first year pay- even at the majors-

we ought to realize that our ability to negotiate is very political. VERY. And losing this PR battle with the union busters hurts us

 

[Beaver79]

Do any of you Einsteins realize that this guy is right about pilots bitching in front of the customers?


If you bitch (and, true, that is our God-given right as pilots, eh?), do so in private!

I admit that he's a bit righteous about writing the bosses about your crappy attitude, but the solution is simple. Don't air your dirty laundry in public...they're paying your salary, and they don't want to hear it.

It's not too much to ask of a professional.

ABSOLUTELY agree with you! Professionalism is not necessarily wearing your hat and polishing your shoes. The image is part of it. We all have crappy days and things we want changed - days off, more $$, better trips etc. However, the constant whining - especially in public - is nauseating. I once read a book about "career advice". The author stipulates that you should embrace "the s u c k" of your job. All jobs have it. In the end, if you can't embrace the bad times, it might be time to move on to something else.

And for those pilots who are asked by the traveling public for an opinion about the industry - give them an honest breakdown of the industry. Leave the negativity out of it (whoa is me..), but explain the variables that affect things - fuel prices, insurance, cut throat competitiveness, commuting etc. It actually helps them understand and appreciate a little bit more what you go through on a day to day basis.

 

[waveflyer]

True- there is a "cry wolf" aspect of our b!tching. VP at American once said- "why pay pilots? it won't make them happy"

we should save our complaints for what really matters. And realize that every job out there does suck in some way. And no one flying coach, and most who fly 1st, are going to feel the least bit sorry for an airline pilot.

 

[jonjuan]

True- there is a "cry wolf" aspect of our b!tching. VP at American once said- "why pay pilots? it won't make them happy"

Pay has made Southwest pilots happy.

 

[Kalifornia]

Pay has made Southwest pilots happy.

Exactly! I don't think complaining in public is really that out of order. If I have surgery in the future, I'd rather hear the doctors complain out loud about their plight and choose a different facility if work conditions were poor, then go in with a blind faith hoping they are happy with their job. When you really think about the piss poor treatment especially at the low end of the spectrum in this profession, it's a miracle more major incidents don't happen.

Now with that said, I agree that pilots in turn must present those arguments in a professional manner of speech and image. Looking like a slob and/or talking like one ("dude, scheduling just jacked me, I'm spent" while wearing Sketchers and an i-pod is counterproductive to "Wow, I can't believe scheduling expects us to get adequate rest on 8 hours between the time we got in the gate and the time we need to show in the morning with a 20 minute van time each way and us needing some food after a 14 hour duty day") while wearing the traditional pilots uniform in public.

 

[waveflyer]

Pay has made Southwest pilots happy.

100% agree. It's why I work there.

But it's not just pay. They pay well- and have most of the other intrinsic factors that do make a person happy.

There's a study I ran across in BS- a lack of pay can make someone unhappy. All the money in the world can't make a person happy. Happiness comes with trust, caring, responsibility, opportunities for personal and professional growth, advocacy.

Pilots get unhappy when they are treated like and internalize that they are just a seniority number- out of control- along for the ride.

SWA proves AA mgmt wrong- and magnifies their lack of leadership.

Why america puts up with corporations that don't act like swa, I don't know. I am grateful to work for them.

 

[PsubS]

Gogglespisano wrote:

My employer pays my salary, negotiated by my union. My employer derives its income from passenger revenue (overwhelmingly business class) and cargo revenue. The flying public does not "pay my salary."

and Whymeworry wrote:

Ahhhh... yeeeeeeeeeeeah. They don't pay our salary. If they did a simple $3 a ticket raise is all we need to get our contract back to where it was 10 yrs ago. Wanna' bet they're not willing to pay that amount?

Both of you are incredibly wrong and short sighted. Sure, your employer signs the check. Who creates the revenue stream? The customer. Want proof? Not enough customers, no job. It's simple economics, folks.

That attitude is--exactly--why customer service has dropped within OUR industry. The customer is not always right, but they are ultimately the ones who pay the bills. We need to keep the customers, not alienate them with unwarranted bitching and complaining.

Show some pride...do your job right, bitch in private, and continue to fight (within your union or company) to raise our respective pay, standard of living and quality of life.

 

[GogglesPisano]

That attitude is--exactly--why customer service has dropped within OUR industry.

Of course, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with pay rates cut in half, work rules dismantled, and pensions stolen as CEO's took bonuses.

I don't complain in public, primarily because it would have serve no purpose but secondly because the travelling public spent some money to travel and shouldn't be subjected to employees griping -- just like I wouldn't want to hear complaints from Home Depot workers or my lawyer. I take exception to your idea that "they pay my salary," for reasons stated. We'll agree to disagree.

 

[waveflyer]

Ultimate responsibility is, by definition, on management. Leadership matters. If I'm talking to an individual pilot- I'd say 'don't complain, youre only pissing yourself off'- but that doesn't mean that better leadership and management out of airline executives couldn't solve the problems that we're complaining about.

 

[Britpilot]

"I can guarantee with 95 percent certainty that if two or more people with white shirts and epaulettes are chatting together in an airline terminal"


Was it "complaining in public" or a nosy private pilot listening in on a private conversation between two pilots. I thought it was rude to eavesdrop, or has freedom of speech been revoked?

 

[PsubS]

It is not a question of your God-given right to bitch. It's about not doing it in front of the public.

I take exception with the comment made that the ultimate responsibility falls upon management. There is plenty of give and take in that dynamic.

Ultimate responsibility for your attitude lies with....you. Go figure.

Life isn't perfect. You and only you are responsible for how you deal with it.

 

[waveflyer]

True- if you read with any depth my post, you'd see I agree- But This isn't a 'what came first, the chicken or egg?' scenario. An employment culture begins with management. Does it take employees buying into it? YES! But employees cannot create a culture that management doesn't lead.

As the saying goes.... consider what has happened since 2000 to the airline industry- now think back to deregulation in 1978. How much $$$ have airline employees earned- and watched taken out of the industry by opportunistic CEOs? At some point, if you're not pissed, you're not paying attention. In this environment of anything goes management bandits- I find it hard to criticize a pilot for their attitude about it. And management's industry wide could do the very many things that SWA does and get happier employees. It's not rocket science. It's understanding humanity. They, by and large, choose NOT to. That's their choice-- and no pilot is responsible for their lack of leadership and management ability.

Once again, I'm seeing the most important quality of a man: "responsibility"- skull f^cked by someone who thinks that anyone else ought to be responsible for the immoral and bad choices made by an airline management. If only seniority weren't what it was so we would all be free to leave employers acting in such a way. Your argume t would hold more water if airline mgmt weren't so egregious. If they all acted like SWA- I'd 1000% agree with you-

they don't. And only they are responsible for that.

 

[Britpilot]

It is not a question of your God-given right to bitch. It's about not doing it in front of the public.

I take exception with the comment made that the ultimate responsibility falls upon management. There is plenty of give and take in that dynamic.

Ultimate responsibility for your attitude lies with....you. Go figure.

Life isn't perfect. You and only you are responsible for how you deal with it.

I will talk with whom I want, where I want and about whatever I want. If you don't like what you hear, don't listen.

 

[bluefin]

Gotta bitfh in the terminal! they way things are going it will be sterile cockpit during the entire flight!

 

[PsubS]

Originally Posted by PsubS
It is not a question of your God-given right to bitch. It's about not doing it in front of the public.

I take exception with the comment made that the ultimate responsibility falls upon management. There is plenty of give and take in that dynamic.

Ultimate responsibility for your attitude lies with....you. Go figure.

Life isn't perfect. You and only you are responsible for how you deal with it.


I will talk with whom I want, where I want and about whatever I want. If you don't like what you hear, don't listen.

Outstanding. Go for it.

And when your airline folds due to piss-poor customer service, I'll be glad to pick up your slack.