American

[Dangerkitty]

Now, I've got to go kick Kitty's a$$ for calling me a "Sky-Nazi"! TC

AMR up 4.65% today. Man am I kicking myself!!

TC you are/were one of us. You came to the dark side. There is no going back. :laugh:

 

[Draginass]

aa73--Not to nit-pick but junior TWA CA is early summer '88. (My friend, Dr. Evil is close to returning... ) I use to agree with you on the recall v. bypass isssue but I don't know. There are a handful at JB and AirTran, smaller numbers at SWA and FEX/UPS and a smattering like me at other decent jobs. There are a lot at Focus/Tradewinds (props to CSY) and Kalitta. S80/FO/LGA/D looks pretty good to that group. Plus the flowbies will come running as fast as they can. It will be interesting.

TWA Dude--There you go with that glass-half-full stuff again.

Now, I've got to go kick Kitty's a$$ for calling me a "Sky-Nazi"! TC

Depends on what kind of job there is to come back to. Seems Ralph & company are busy finding ways to let the company work pilots much harder and longer trying to protect those W-2s of the senior guys, until they can take their money and run, leaving the wreckage behind them.

Sitting 20 days of reserve a month in NY on a still-to-be-reduced payrate and pension of a Stupid 80 FO doesn't look very good to me.

Need to keep a close eye on NW and Delta. Stenland has his chainsaw out and is systematically destroying the unions on his property. Delta's going after their pilot union as well. It's just a matter of time before Arpey pulls out the ax wants an "industry standard" contract as well. When this is all over, I think Connie Kalitta might look like a pretty good employer, relatively speaking.

 

[aa73]

Sitting 20 days of reserve a month in NY on a still-to-be-reduced payrate and pension of a Stupid 80 FO doesn't look very good to me.

Well, you must be one of the ones that will vote Yes to another paycut?

It's guys like you that have already decided "we will take another paycut" that the APA loves to hear about.

How about, "Heck No we will not take another paycut and we will stand firm this time" instead.

Remember, the membership (rank and file) is very united against taking more concessions. You sound like you think the deal will be implemented without a vote. It HAS to go to a vote, dude.

 

[aa73]

aa73--Not to nit-pick but junior TWA CA is early summer '88. (My friend, Dr. Evil is close to returning... )

sorry, you're right. I'm still trying to figure out the hiring cycle of TWA in the 80s.. seems like it went from '85, to the OZ merger in '86, and then no more new hires till '88.

 

[typhoonpilot]

I use to agree with you on the recall v. bypass isssue but I don't know. There are a handful at JB and AirTran, smaller numbers at SWA and FEX/UPS and a smattering like me at other decent jobs. There are a lot at Focus/Tradewinds (props to CSY) and Kalitta. S80/FO/LGA/D looks pretty good to that group. Plus the flowbies will come running as fast as they can. It will be interesting.TC

I would agree with TC here. I was furloughed from USAirways for 8 years. There were just over 300 guys in that category and roughly 180 returned. It was a surprisingly large number considering the length of furlough. The big reason that many, myself included, returned was for the pension that we were still accruing longevity in. If that pension hadn't been there when the decision to return was made I think we wouldn't have had as many return. If the AA pension stays intact then you'll get a healthy percentage return.


TP

 

[XTW]

TC you are/were one of us. You came to the dark side. :laugh:

Slight correction. TC never made it to the dark side. The fence was too high before the furough axe fell. Besides, he's always been kind of "dark" in his own way!


X

 

[skidbuggy]

HOHOHOHOHO!!!! ROTFL!!!!

AMR will resist recalling until the schedule is crumbling around them and they have chief pilots going door to door looking for pilots hiding from crew sched.

Until they can't hide the fact that they are cancelling flights due to crew shortages they will not recall.

Thanks for the laugh, though. TC

As a furloghed K-Mart Cowboy myself it really torqued me off a few weeks ago when, while being on a full fare ticket, they cancelled my flight home due to lack of cockpit crew.

 

[Draginass]

Well, you must be one of the ones that will vote Yes to another paycut?

It's guys like you that have already decided "we will take another paycut" that the APA loves to hear about.

How about, "Heck No we will not take another paycut and we will stand firm this time" instead.

Remember, the membership (rank and file) is very united against taking more concessions. You sound like you think the deal will be implemented without a vote. It HAS to go to a vote, dude.

Voted "hell no" the first time. If it does come up again, being furloughed, I'm denied a vote. I think the APA will fold yet again. Heck, they won't even put their finger in Arpey's belly-button to keep travel privileges for furloughed members. When push comes to shove, this rhetoric of unity is just cheap talk. The 69's won't hesitate to throw the others under the bus, just like US Air did. Arpey's waiting to see how NW is going to turn out before he pushes that contract across the table and says "sign it or we'll get via the courts."

 

[aa73]

Voted "hell no" the first time. If it does come up again, being furloughed, I'm denied a vote. I think the APA will fold yet again. Heck, they won't even put their finger in Arpey's belly-button to keep travel privileges for furloughed members. When push comes to shove, this rhetoric of unity is just cheap talk. The 69's won't hesitate to throw the others under the bus, just like US Air did. Arpey's waiting to see how NW is going to turn out before he pushes that contract across the table and says "sign it or we'll get via the courts."

I don't know, Dragin... I don't think Arpey would be stupid enough to squander away most of his compensation (stock otions) by just declaring BK... with more than 3.5B in cash! I don't think the BOD would ever allow him to do that. He's consistently proven that he is against the BK concept, makes sense because they want to remain in control of the airline, not give it away to some judge. NWA and DAL were in a different category, financially. They had to.

Despite the 69ers, I don't think our pilot group is stupid enough to "BOHICA" once again. no matter what propaganda is being put out by Hunter & Co. If they want PBS that badly, fine give it to us but it better come with a hefty pay raise. I think we all know that getting a PBS will not cause more furloughs, with all the early outs every month. Or if not a PBS, then FAR max, which would cause lines to be built to 85 instead of 78 - heck, most of our guys are flying 85 as it is now. What's the difference?

NO MORE PAY CUTS!

 

[aa73]

AA73,

Are you J.P.?

Nope, sorry. Been asked that already... I must sound like what he sounds like?

 

[jetexas]

They won't give a payraise with PBS. It would defeat the purpose, wouldn't it? They are trying to force-feed PBS upon Eagle too. It's nothing more than a pay cut in disguise.

 

[aa73]

They won't give a payraise with PBS. It would defeat the purpose, wouldn't it? They are trying to force-feed PBS upon Eagle too. It's nothing more than a pay cut in disguise.

Well heck yes, there better be a pay raise! They are getting more productivity from us, so we should be compensated more for that! Isn't that the SWA formula? Are they "defeating the purpose?"

PBS is a concession to pilots. Why would we take one concession, and then get a pay cut (another concession) on top of that one?

 

[jetexas]

That increase in productivity would be a definite 'paycut' (lack of pay) to the larger percentage of pilots not recalled. That's where the 'concession' will be. The folks left 'may' see a bit of an increase in pay but there will be around a 10% cut in manning requirements (at least that's the number I hear). AA furloughs taking longer to get back, flowbacks stuck longer, eagle fo's taking ever longer to upgrade will be the 'paycut in disguise' for the pilots of AMR. Of course the alternative to taking PBS might be further layoffs, a heightened threat to AA retirement, etc.

 

[aa73]

That increase in productivity would be a definite 'paycut' (lack of pay) to the larger percentage of pilots not recalled. That's where the 'concession' will be. The folks left 'may' see a bit of an increase in pay but there will be around a 10% cut in manning requirements (at least that's the number I hear). AA furloughs taking longer to get back, flowbacks stuck longer, eagle fo's taking ever longer to upgrade will be the 'paycut in disguise' for the pilots of AMR. Of course the alternative to taking PBS might be further layoffs, a heightened threat to AA retirement, etc.

Good points, and I agree for the most part. But AA has been begging for more productivity for years, and most of the furloughees would rather have a halfway decent job to come back to. That's why I point out that giving us PBS AND a paycut just won't fly. Either way you slice it, were gonna get hit with more productivity, which will stagnate the recalls. (even though I personally am of the opinion that we NEED to recall next year, with or without productivity increases.)

 

[eglpilot]

rumor is they will not recall untill the TWA people lose thier right to recall.

 

[XTW]

rumor is they will not recall untill the TWA people lose thier right to recall.

I heard they are going to coordinate with AE to adjust DOH and seniority numbers to reflect the original DOH at TW for the flowbacks on the property at AE, just to compensate for the loss of recall rights also!:nuts:


X

 

[catIIIc]

rumor is they will not recall untill the TWA people lose thier right to recall.

That is impossible since AA has an unlimited time frame on recalls. That is not say that APA could negotiate that away, I wouldn't put it passed this leadership.

 

[TWA Dude]

As you say, it's impossible because the "TWA people" are on the same seniority list as the nAAtives. There's no seperating them without redoing the whole integration which aint' gonna happen (barring any legal ruling to that effect).

 

[jetexas]

I heard they are going to coordinate with AE to adjust DOH and seniority numbers to reflect the original DOH at TW for the flowbacks on the property at AE, just to compensate for the loss of recall rights also!:nuts:


X

That would make those riots over in Paris look like a playground recess. The pilots at Eagle have already taken it where the 'sun don't shine' over the whole flowback issue. Nice try though!

 

[aa73]

That is impossible since AA has an unlimited time frame on recalls. That is not say that APA could negotiate that away, I wouldn't put it passed this leadership.

Sadly, the TWA F/As were saddled with only 5 year recall rights, and rumor has it that they won't recall any F/As until those recall rights expire - next year or two.

Correct, the pilots have unlimited recall rights.