American Master Re-Bid

[pilot141]

ex nav thanks for the words.

Lots of rumors are running around that the furloughs won't go as deep as AA predicted. As I've said before, I won't believe anything now unless I see it, but I remain hopeful. As per company procedure H-1, which states "The company shall hire pilots until it is deemed necessary to furlough pilots, at which time the company will furlough pilots until it is deemed necessary to recall pilots" I expect the last people to be furloughed to be out for only a few months.

I really hope that we can get people back in seats soon; having the twin distinctions of "lowest paid major" and "most pilots on furlough" isn't exactly what I hoped for when I came here.




Note: the line about company procedure H-1 was a joke (hence the smiley face). Do not ask me for a link to CP H-1!

 

[Hagar17]

22 year-old hires

Holdon:

The only outfit that hired "22 year olds" that I know of was TWA. THAT'S why you see so many 35 year-old TWA captains crying about how they "paid their dues." You idiots wouldn't have even been close to holding a left seat anywhere else, so you rolled the dice and stayed with a floundering company in hopes that it would all work out and you would spend 25-30 years of your career as a captain. Now you cry about how you were rooked. You weren't rooked, you lost, just like I lost by not going to class with UPS or SWA.

If TWA was so great, why were there SIX former TWAers in my indoc class, with FIVE in the class before mine, and FOUR in the class after? Kudwa came and spoke to us and joked that TWA couldn't train pilots fast enough for us. Should you be placed on the seniority list ahead of them?

As far as the Eagle moron that called APA guys scabs, you need to understand the meaning of the word before you mouth off. Flowthrough/Flowback is a two-way street, my friend. None of you Eagle guys were complaining about being injected into the AA seniority list when times were good. I'll even venture to say the chance to flowthrough is why you're at Eagle. YOU'RE pissed at something YOUR union agreed to that has now dried up. Sit down and shut up.

Why do I come to this board?

Hagar17
AA Sep '00 hire

 

[WIDEBODY ATR]

HAGAR 17, You obviously don't have a freakin' clue so get your facts straight before you feel justified mouthing off about what Eagle pilots think or should think! The "two-way" street isn't two-way and never was. It's only ONE way, YOUR way and to YOUR benefit, not MINE. I will never benefit from the "agreement" (that you want to arbitrarily and ILLEGALLY change). Unless you consider going from six years as a captain to a lifetime F/O a benefit. So I would suggest educating yourself before you perpetuate the unflattering reputation that AA pilots have. If you object to the term "SCAAB", then don't act like one!

 

[COpilot]

Pilot141, thank you for an informative post. However, could you give me a brief explaination of where the Jr TW CA is on the list, and for kicks a late '87 hire?

To others, PLEASE use the word SCAB correctly! It has nothing to do with the way any of you are using it...

Greg Lewis
Continental Airlines
EX B737CA, now B767FO
DOH 9/87 (after the strike)

 

[Hagar17]

Moron

HAGAR 17, You obviously don't have a freakin' clue so get your facts straight before you feel justified mouthing off about what Eagle pilots think or should think! The "two-way" street isn't two-way and never was. It's only ONE way, YOUR way and to YOUR benefit, not MINE. I will never benefit from the "agreement" (that you want to arbitrarily and ILLEGALLY change). Unless you consider going from six years as a captain to a lifetime F/O a benefit. So I would suggest educating yourself before you perpetuate the unflattering reputation that AA pilots have. If you object to the term "SCAAB", then don't act like one!

Widemouth ATR:

So six years as a captain at Eagle "entitles" you to a job at AA? I DO have a clue because I know that's EXACTLY how you think!! That agreement is of NO benefit to me because I won't EVER flow back to Eagle. As far as my "unflattering reputation" that I share with other AA pilots, I could give a sh!t less! You guys were all for the flowthrough, the flip side of that is flowback. So bend over and take it. Blame ALPA, not me or AA pilots in general.

Sounds like a two-way street to me.

Say that scab smack to me when you're riding an AA jumpseat, jerk. You have no concept of what a scab is. Talk to my best friend's Dad about that (former EAL).

I apologize to the other 99% of Eagle pilots.

 

[Letter3.org]

You guys were all for the flowthrough, the flip side of that is flowback. So bend over and take it. Blame ALPA, not me or AA pilots in general.

Sounds like you're misinformed. ALPA nor the Eagle pilots are the ones trying to make unilateral changes to the flow back. On the contrary, we're trying to make sure Letter 3/Supp W stands as is or that any changes are done in a legitimate way - all parties agree. We know that AA pilots have a right to hundreds of RJ captain seats, but we object to the changes that give recall rights into the RJ for potentially thousands of furloughee!

Letter 3 was negotiated as "limited up, limited back". APA didn't want a free-for-all of Eagle pilots coming over in the good times and we didn't want a free-for-all of AA pilots coming back in bad times. When the Eagle contract was voted in back in '97, we accepted the total package which included Letter 3 as is. Flow Through was a big reason we took the garbage in the rest of the contract For the company and APA to make changes without ALPA's consent is to take away what at the time and maybe in the future will be a contract benefit.

If APA really wants all of the growth captain positions at Eagle, they should start by bringing something of value to the table that would be appealing to the majority of Eagle pilots. In the good times, APA could have easily talked Eagle pilots into being on the bottom of the list, but APA is too proud of their heritage to do something like that. So now they choose to "take" the jobs instead in spite of their "word" when they signed Letter 3. If your union gets away with these changes, they are no better than highway robbers.

That's a despicable way for a labor union to treat another labor union - "union" being the operative word that implies strength through numbers. We have the same management, but APA thinks it has enough numbers to get management's full attention. I guess that's why SCOPE is alive and well and prospering the AA pilots. Keep up the good work and sound Eagle policy APA....

www.letter3.org

 

[PacoPollo]

I Dont have any problems having APA pilots at Eagle, as long as they are AT THE BOTTOM OF OUR LIST. .Do they think they are better or something?
The ball is on ALPA's side.Letter 3 as is or negotiate with AE ALPA
Some agreement that doesnt benefit APA all together.

As for HAGAR17 whats your problem bro..TacoBell wont even hire you with that attitude.

 

[Hagar17]

Paco:

My problem, dude, is being called a "scAAb." I agree that wholesale changes to the flowthrough/flowback agreement are wrong. I was speaking more about Eagle guys that were complaining about the flowback a year-and-a-half ago, right after 9/11. There was an Eagle guy on my Fokker jumpseat that said the few guys that flowed back in 2001 were stealing Eagle pilot's jobs. That is why I appear misinformed. Those few, and I mean few, guys that flowed back to Eagle were exercising a negotiated contractural benefit. APA changing the deal mid-stream is wrong. In my world, a deal's a deal. APA trying to put 2500 guys in Eagle RJ seats is wrong and I won't have any part in supporting that. I am more angry with APA than any Eagle pilot could ever be. My attitude problem is with someone that calls me a scab because of the emblem on my hat.

Letter3, thank you for the level-headed and thoughtful response. I have to hand it to you Eagle guys, you all know your contract. I wish more APA guys paid the same attention to their green book as they do the green you putt on.

Paco, would you like soft or crunchy?

Hag

 

[PacoPollo]

How about a beer

 

[WIDEBODY ATR]

HAGAR 17, You ignorant little puke. Where did I say that being a six year captain "ENTITLED" me to be an AA pilot? You are so freakin' stupid! I said that your ILLEGAL agreement will force me to move BACKWARDS in my OWN company that I was hired at to work. I have no interest in being anywhere near you and your little golf buddies. And for those of you that are cautioning about the use of the word SCAAB, we're being polite in using that term because in actuality, they're much worse! A scab is clearly someone who is willing to ILLEGALLY take someone else's job and that is exactly what will happen to me. Yes, it IS personal and I would LOVE to have you in my jumpseat. I'm sure that would never happen though, because everyone knows that turbo-props and particularly EAGLE turbo-prop pilots are not safe nor smart enough to fly jets. That is what you think, right? Have a nice freakin' day and kiss my a$$