American Master Re-Bid

[eaglefly]

717 - In order to "think outside the box" one needs to identify the boundaries of the box they exist in.

Here is that section of Letter 3, AS WRITTEN IN VERBATIM :

Section IV. (A.) A pilot furloughed from AA may displace a CJ captain at an AMR Eagle, Inc. carrier provided that the number of CJ Captain positions available to furloughed AA pilots will be limited to the total number of CJ Captain positions at AMR Eagle, Inc. less the number of Eagle Rights CJ Captains.

You've added a non-existant personal interpretation ("move in to") and than quoted the last half of the paragraph. As you can see there is a SPECIFIC and single term used to allow an AA furloughee to flow-back to an Eagle CJ Captain position from AA and that is by DISPLACEMENT ONLY and a SPECIFIC NUMBER. There could be 5000 positions but the ONLY method for AA furloughees to access anything is by DISPLACEMENT ONLY.

However there is ONE situation provided by Letter 3 that allows a furloughed AA pilot to claim a vacancy (the ONLY place the term VACANCY is used AND THEREFORE THE ONLY TIME IT APPLIES) and that is described in Section C, again AS WRITTEN IN VERBATIM :

Section C. If no CJ Captain position at AMR Eagle, Inc. is available for a furloughed AA pilot, such pilot shall not have any further DIPLACEMENT rights at AMR Eagle, Inc. and shall be furloughed as an AA pilot, with the exception that a furloughed AA pilot who is DISPLACED FROM CJ CAPTAIN STATUS may elect either of the following options :

*There are three, but I'll only list the first as the other two are not pertient to the process of flow-back directly from AA.

1. Such pilot may use seniority accrued at AMR Eagle, Inc. to bid a vacancy or displace at such carrier in accordance with the applicable collective bargaining agreement provided that no AMR Eagle, Inc. pilot on the current Eagle seniority list will be furloughed as a result of this provision consistent with Paragraph IV. K. below or....

You'll note that the language in Section C re-affirmes the term DISPLACEMENT as described in Section A, as the ONLY method of flow-back. It also says that the only person who can DISPLACE a furloughed AA pilot currently flying as CJ Captain is a more senior AA pilot.

Then that displaced AA furloughee/CJ Captain can use his accrued EAGLE seniority to bid a vacancy should that EAGLE seniority hold one (hello SJU ATR F/O).

Actually the next paragraph (2.) provides for 10 years of recall for that displaced AA furloughee/CJ Captain IN REVERSE ORDER OF AA SENIORITY, but he must first accept furlough.

As for the CRJ's, The captain seats are available under the same flow-back rights above, DISPLACEMENT ONLY AND ONLY THOSE JUNIOR TO YOU ON THE AA LIST, A JUNIOR FLOWBACK OR THOSE WITHOUT AN AA SENIORITY NUMBER.

The attempted FORCED transfer of these aircraft have NOTHING to do with letter 3. There are no provisions (or rights to ANY other pilot group) for this action.

As per our SCOPE clause (AA is not the only pilot group with some form of scope), Once an aircraft is placed at Eagle it cannot be transferred unless affected pilots are transferred with them -or- the company sells the aircraft. AMR cannot sell aircraft to themselves, so the option would be transfer of our pilots, in addition to a "cost-neutral" scenario.

You're right about leverage. But THIS TIME Eagle ALPA is on clean ground. It may take court action, but if not defended Eagle will no longer have a valid seniority list.

A pilot group without a seniority list or seniority rights has nothing left worth defending.

There is nothing more dangerous than people with nothing left to lose.

717, your faulty assertions are another example of a total lack of understanding of the latest in a series of major blunders by the APA. I have yet to meet a mainline pilot who has any idea of what Supplement W/Letter 3 is about.

Tell Darrah to SQUANDER his one-item. He'll wish he kept it for something more vital (and rewarding) in the future.

* Note to Eagle pilots, although I'll not comment on what one chooses to post, RULE 32 ONLY applies to employees of YOUR company, not to pilots from other carriers or to someone in a supermarket, etc.

 

[PacoPollo]

LETTER 3 ALL THE WAY.......

 

[PHXFLYR]

After reading some of these AA/TWA/AE posts , I'm gonna have to think long and hard before I put my wife and kids on any of there airplanes.

PHXFLYR

 

[bluesideup1]

Make sure not to wonder over and read the Delta/ASA/Comair/Skywest/**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**aqua or the US air/Jet for Jobs/WO's/non-WO's, or the America West/Mesa/Freedom, etc. Otherwise you will be very limited on who you can stick your family on.

 

[Goose17]

Send em Fed Ex

You can always send them FedEx. Just pad the box and cut some air holes.

I am starting to realize the beauty of flying for a cargo airline.

Goose17

 

[Letter3.org]

I'm finding that, these days, there is no right or wrong in the airline business, there's only leverage.TC

AA717driver

APA is obviously stooping to mgmt's level with regard to Supp W/Letter 3. What is very disappointing is the lack of AA pilots that are outraged by this. The typical response to Eagle pilots from AA pilots is that we should be lucky to get what we have. Anyone who thinks that should flow back to see what "lucky" feels like!

What APA does right and does wrong affects the profession of ALL airline pilots from A to Z. When it only thinks of itself at the expense of trying to sabotage the contract of another labor union - even if it's those Eagle pilots you might say - it's a SAD day for organized labor everywhere!

What we need are leaders that either live up to their word or negotiate a civilized solution to the problems at hand. The kind of leadership that we are seeing now from management and APA is the very lowest form - CAVEMAN. The caveman leads by beating you into submission with his "club" in this case the threat of mass displacements. You follow because you have to, not because you believe in the mission, or in this case the airline.

I would doubt any of us see the virtues of this kind of leadership, but it is PRECISELY the type that has put most of the airline industry into this horrible situation. How so many well-educated people can think this is the best way to run any company or organization is beyond me.

 

[PacoPollo]

Remember AE exists because of APA...Or at least thats what they think..So thats why they come in and Gamble with AE contract.Letter 3 is the answer.

AArogance+,scAAbs=APA

 

[Letter3.org]

Well, whatever the reason for civilized people not living up to written contracts or negotiating a solution to a problem, one can be sure that AMR has a LONG way to go before the average line employee views management with any sense of credibility. In this case, ditto for APA.

This is not a good way for Mr. Arpey to take over. His ability to lead is compromised from the outset. If we ever needed a leader, it is now.

 

[pilot141]

To get back to the OP

The preliminary results of the MOAB are out, and it looks like folks hired in 1999 are safe; anyone hired in 2000 is either gone or so close to being gone as to be worthless. The Dec 99 class will have about 100 people below it when all is said and done. This is based on current manning and planned retirements; any early retirements will reduce the number of furloughs.

Now, please no flames about "A 1903 TWA hire will be furloughed!!", etc. The OP asked about how far back the furloughs would go.....meaning AA new-hire furloughs. The "fairness" of the seniority list has nothing to do with the facts...and in this case, the facts are that anyone hired after 1999 by AA is looking at losing their job (including me).

The ways that AMR management has screwed up could fill volumes; the way that the APA has screwed up could also fill volumes. This thread is not the place for that.

Unfortunately as soon as I post this someone will come along and call me either "AArogant" or a "scAAb" because my paycheck says AA. I'll just direct those comments to that nearby brick wall and have everyone else judge my posts on their merits.

Once again: if you want to discuss APA's, AMR's or ALPA's shortcomings, start a new thread where everyone feels free to pile on. That way you can vent all your pent-up anger without hijacking every single thread that appears with "AA" in the title.

 

[ex nav]

PILOT141,

Thanks for the info. It is very kind of you to take the time to post that info so those of us on the "outside" looking in can know the latest.

If it helps you to know, I feel your pain, as I know exactly how you feel. I was among the first group that was furloughed.

If there is any bright side in any of this, it's you will be at the top when the recalls begin. I pray that they will.

I hope that at the AA pilots (former TWA included) get back just as soon as possible. Hope those that are left at AA can "right the ship" and get it back on course soonest.

Here's to POSITIVE posts and out with the bickering. It's time folks started using their energies for constructive issues.

Good luck and keep the faith.....