America West Pilots have integrity?

[reepicheep]

The truth is Woody did get shafted, and the case against him was basically laughed out of court. East or west, it'll be a cold day in hell when I'll take the side of PHL TSA.

 

[johnnyb]

Full of Luv --

and yet AWA pilots who were employed at the time of the merger are on the street.

Give it a rest - your 2005 jobs have now been eliminated

PHOENIX SKY HARBOR INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT
AIRPORT STATISTICS
October 2008

2008 YTD 2007 YTD Change
16,760,214 17,633,352 -5.0%



PHX Pax travel off by almost 1 MILLION year over year.


http://www.phoenix.gov/skyharborairport/pdf/StatOct2008.pdf

 

[Joey Bagodonutz]

I hear that East pilots will put on their full uniform just to go to the grocery store.

Something about needing to be respected.

Pathetic.

 

[m80drvr]

Funny you mention that, in 2000 I was in the Costco in PIT. Low and behold there was an east captain shopping.......How did I know he was an USAir captain? He was in FULL uniform with the hat on and everything. I was shopping with a friend of mine and we about puked.

True story......pathetic

 

[Guppiedriver]

Your Judge out there in AZ ruled in the company's favor on the furlough process.

I knew this would happen, just not this soon.

 

[OnTheDole]

Not true, USAPA filed a grievance on that furlough situation. Your Judge out there in AZ ruled in the company's favor on the furlough process.

Did you read any of the transcripts? Yes the judge did say he would not issue an injunction against furloughs – he doesn’t believe a court should/ could prevent a company from reducing staffing as necessary. But he also went on to say the “union’s” position in the regards to the out of seniority furlough grievance is also laughable because USAPA doesn’t really want a real remedy (that remedy being West guys on East routes) – USAPA’s desired solution is for the company to carry the extra pilots on payroll.

This line leads right into the DFR case… USAPA’s not willing to seek real relief in the grievance because it will mean that junior east guys will hit the streets and the west guys that got furloughed out of seniority will take their spot.

The judge said – in not so many words – it’s plain to see the grievance filed by usapa was just an attempt to ‘look’ like they’re doing something – anything - to represent the west pilots. It’s not fooling anybody.

Since I’m sure all of your honest contacts in USAPA haven’t made the transcripts available… I cut and pasted the section I’m speaking of below



Get your USAPA house in order, and demand they represent ALL US Airways pilots - or open your wallet and ready yourself for the assessments to cover the damages.

 

[OnTheDole]

THE COURT: But Mr. Seham, USAPA's grievance, does it challenge the furloughing of West Pilots in advance of furloughing New-Hire East Pilots? New-Hire Seniority List, to be precise?
MR. SEHAM: I'm going to rephrase the question as I
understood it. The TA9 grievance argues that under the
transition agreement, all New-Hire Pilots must be furloughed before any pre-merger, East or West Pilots would get furloughed. And therefore, to our reading, this is the same -- it seeks the same remedy as Count 1 of the complaint.
THE COURT: Well, it seeks part of the same remedy but
only a small part of the same remedy. There's a lot more that the plaintiffs seek than that grievance seeks. But again, my question is: Is USAPA taking the position in that grievance that the company must furlough New-Hire Seniority Lists who are flying east flights and keep West Pilots, which would necessarily mean the West Pilots would fly the east flights that the New-Hire Seniority List East Pilots are flying now?
MR. SEHAM: It doesn't take the position that they
would necessarily have to be flying east flights. That is not something addressed by our grievance. Our grievance addresses only the issue of whether the company, at this point, may furlough pre-merger West Pilots for New-Hire Pilots. And the answer -- our position is they cannot do that.
THE COURT: I'm trying to understand your client's
position. Because the way I articulated the question is my
understanding of the practical impact of taking the position that you have said. Now, it's possible that my understanding is mistaken. But if -- as I read the company's brief filed last night, they have followed furlough policy from the preexisting Collective
Bargaining Agreements, one for east and one for west. And
that's what they feel obligated to do and entitled to do. And therefore, they say, they have furloughed West Pilots for cancelled or eliminated west flights at the same time that there are some New-Hire Seniority List East Pilots flying east flights. That's correct, Mr. Siegel, right.
MR. SIEGEL: That is correct.
THE COURT: And as I read your briefs, it appeared to
me that USAPA is challenging that as violative of the
Collective Bargaining Agreements. And I don't see how that
challenge could succeed without resulting in some New-Hire
Seniority List East Pilots being furloughed and West Pilots
flying in their place.
MR. SEHAM: In terms of operational issues, the
grievance does not focus on and does not address the
operational consequences.
THE COURT: Well, then I am having difficulty
understanding what your grievance means if it doesn't provide a practical consequence.
MR. SEHAM: The practical consequence is directed
toward who is subject to furlough at this point.
THE COURT: I really do not understand that. Are you
saying that East Pilots must be furloughed before -- some
New-Hire Seniority List East Pilots must be furloughed before some West Pilots? Yes or no?
MR. SEHAM: Yes.
THE COURT: So what happens if you file that grievance? What's going to happen to those New-Hire East Pilots? Do they stay on as extra work force? Is the company deprived of the right to lay off people?
MR. SEHAM: That is a possible -- that could be a
possible consequence.
THE COURT: I don't see that as even arguably a
possible consequence under the operative documents here. The company has the right to lay off pilots as economic
circumstances demand up to a certain minimum. So it seems to me that if your client is pursuing in good faith a grievance, you must be taking the position that some -- forgive me for being repetitive, but we have a lot of defined terms here -- New-Hire Seniority East Pilots are going to have to be laid off and West Pilots flying those flights? Are you not asserting that in your grievance?
MR. SEHAM: We are asserting in our grievance that
New-Hire East Pilots have to be furloughed prior to pre-merger West Pilots. As to where those pre-merger West Pilots then get assigned, that is an issue that we have not addressed in our
grievance.
THE COURT: All right. I don't want to quarrel with
you, but I don't feel like I'm getting a straight answer to my question. Because I don't see how you can eliminate furloughs without having somebody fly flights unless you are going to have pilots paid for not flying. So are you taking the position that new seniority East Pilots must be furloughed in favor of West Pilots meaning that West Pilots will be flying those flights in place of the furloughed New-Hire list East Pilots?
MR. SEHAM: If I might have -- because, frankly, this
is not an aspect that we have considered, may I confer?
THE COURT: Well, maybe we don't -- you can -- I think
maybe you can confer when we take a break, because this
question and the lack of an answer to this question seems to me to be a very important aspect to reaching a conclusion of whether USAPA's grievance is a good faith grievance at all. If you are not seeking to put some pilots out and other pilots in the cockpit, it may be nothing more than an appearance rather than a substantive -- joining in the substantive -- that aspect of the substantive claim of the West Pilots.

 

[Question4U]

It sounds like you guys are really close to working things out. I hope you guys hire soon I would really like to jump on board. US Air should just shut the doors and save everybody time and money what a joke.

 

[St. Nic]

"MR. SEHAM: We are asserting in our grievance that
New-Hire East Pilots have to be furloughed prior to pre-merger West Pilots. As to where those pre-merger West Pilots then get assigned, that is an issue that we have not addressed in our
grievance."

SEHAM is lying to the judge. The fool just may lose his law license before this all over. God, I never imagined a pilot group could collectively be so blind and can't see the obvious- Easties have been played, big time. Their emotions are going to cost them dearly...

 

[St. Nic]

AIR Traffic up to August, 2008:

15. McCarran International Airport Las Vegas, Nevada, United States LAS/KLAS 30,739,674
18. Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport Phoenix, Maricopa, Arizona, United States PHX/KPHX 27,726,899
28. Charlotte Douglas International Airport Charlotte, North Carolina, United States CLT/KCLT 23,540,284

PHL isn't even on the list for 2008, even with LUV on the property, but it was on the top 30 list in 2006:
28. Philadelphia International Airport Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States PHL/KPHL 31,768,272 ▼2

Interestingly, CLT was never on the top 30 list until this last year coming in at #28. PHL has been on and off the bottom of the list also and right now it didn't even make the top 30, even with Southwest growing their operation. Neither CLT nor PHL have busy operations. In fact, none of the East domiciles are anything significant airtravel- wise. All are small operations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_busiest_airports_by_passenger_traffic

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Dope is a proud member of NGPA. He does have his PPL.
Dope always will be a proud member NGPA and he enjoys the support he gets from his fellow aviators who do not mind his tourettes nor his very small stature.
Due to his extreme case of tourettes, Dope can not help but to post, even though he is wasting his time.

Dope, take your meds now.! It will help the urge to post and curse. That way you will have some control of your time.

good luck Dope and have fun at your anual NGPA meeting you so love to attend you sick bastard.

AGF!

M

McDoosh:
I love how you respond to the name mcdoosh!
I'm glad to know you know the exact dates. Nice to know your dad still keeps you up to date.
BTW, thanks for taking my avitar. Flattery will get you everywhere.....Of course, except through the Gulfstream Academy program, which, you washed out of.
You get your UAL furlough notice yet?
So long GF!

 

[MCDU]

DOPE, you need to stop using my trash and try to come up with your own trash. Try to put your little pea brain to work.

AYSGF

M

 

[Scope out RJ's]

DOPE, you need to stop using my trash and try to come up with your own trash. Try to put your little pea brain to work.

AYSGF

M

Mcdoosh:
You're turning out to be quite the stalker.
But then again, I wouldn't expect anything less from a Gulfstream washout.
How's the furlough job search going?:laugh:

AYSGF

 

[MCDU]

Dope,

Take your Meds!

AYGSLF with Tourettes

M

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Dope,

Take your Meds!

AYGSLF with Tourettes

M

MCdoosh:
Enjoy the F-U-R-L-O-G-H!:laugh:
Take your meds!
AYGSLF with Tourettes!

 

[Full of LUV]

I can only imagine.....

Full of Luv --

You just can't imagine what's it like to be on furlough just in front of the holidays. Out of seniority furlough. New hires working out East. Guys who didn't have a job at the time of the merger (AAA furloughees) are still working, and yet AWA pilots who were employed at the time of the merger are on the street. USAPA doesn't even have a statement out about the deal. AWA pilots did everything that was asked of us. Binding Arbitration. The time for negotiation was 3 years ago. The East stuck to DOH. You don't even see that in the DL/NWA agreement. So here we are down the road with a shotgun union who does not care about the West. East pilots are allowing this to happen. They are profiting on the West's pilots losses. The Wallflower excuse over there "I don't really pay attention to union matters" is so over. You have the Majority Pilots taking advantage of the Minority Pilots every day. Some AWA guys will never recover. West never wanted more than what we agreed to. East wants alot more. The East pilots are going to kill LCC and take 33,000 jobs with them. It's indeed very sad. We are trying to avert the train wreck in the courts. East pilots and USAPA members will wake up when they are handed a monetary penalty. We have integrity, it matters, and we'll wait for our day in court. BTW, it is to everyone's benefit to ignore the IDIOT in the room who just plys the board for entertainment.

MK82,
I didn't mean to diminish your plight. To an incompletely informed bystander, it seems amazing to me that the east is willing to work under such a deflated contract merely to hold out for a better SLI, it would seem that their own sense of justice would help guide them back to the goal of coming together as one company.

Is there a future for LCC? Will they put up a 10 year fence and just maintain seperate operations? Is there any penalty for the company operating two seperate operations? Right now, only seems to be positives for mgt.

 

[Bringupthebird]

The behavior of the east is amazing to alot of people including, perhaps, a Federal Judge.

 

[MCDU]

I know the West wants our Jobs. Thank you USAPA for being there to prevent Westies coming East to fly our planes.

1 mio. less paxs in PHX. The East has its min.fleet and are protecting their jobs. With the NIC all furloughs would be EAST jobs and then replaced by West pilots. Replacement pilots with 2005 DOH would be based out EAST displacing 1989 DOH in their jobs.

This is what would happen if the NIC would have been implemented. The East has sacrificed enough and will not stand by to see our jobs being replaced by AWA 2005 New Hires. Going from almost 6000 pilots to 3000 pilots and the Westies think we should furlough again even though West jobs are being cut.
M

 

[johnnyb]

Interestingly, CLT was never on the top 30 list until this last year coming in at #28. PHL has been on and off the bottom of the list also and right now it didn't even make the top 30, even with Southwest growing their operation. Neither CLT nor PHL have busy operations. In fact, none of the East domiciles are anything significant airtravel- wise. All are small operations.




What is your point ?

 

[Scope out RJ's]

I know the West wants our Jobs. Thank you USAPA for being there to prevent Westies coming East to fly our planes.

M

OUR jobs?

Mcdoosh. Did you forget to take your meds?
Why does a furloughed UAL pilot think that he works for LCC?
Again, take your meds!
AYGSLF with Tourettes!

 

[MCDU]

Who is stalking who?
Copycat. Dope in an RJ has to be the biggest hypocrite I have ever witnessed. Now do me a favor and ESAD.

M

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Who is stalking who?
Copycat. Dope in an RJ has to be the biggest hypocrite I have ever witnessed. Now do me a favor and ESAD.

M

McDoosh:
Take your meds! You're furloughed from UAL, get over it!
AYGSLF with Tourettes!

 

[IBNAV8R]

The behavior of the east is amazing to alot of people including, perhaps, a Federal Judge.

Good thing I'm not the judge.

My ruling:

1) "Party A's company bought Party B's company. Party B has a long history of failed, bought, sold and merged companies and, in fact, was in bankruptcy at the time of the purchase.

2) Both parties agreed to arbitration which resulted in a fair and equitable means of merging of lists.

3) Party B decided they didn't get a windfall over the pilots of the company that saved their jobs. Then, by majority, they vote in a new union that would be 'more fair and equitable' in their favor.

4) Somehow, the Party A is responsible for all the failings of all the various companies which kluged to form Party B's company. This despite the one commonality to all the failed companies - Party B.

5) After several frivolous lawsuits and much head scratching by judges quietly muttering to themselves and colleagues , 'who the f** are these A$$holes?', I've easily reached a decision which, perhaps unfair, is just considering the expected fate of the pre-merged companies, the demonstrated integrity and good faith of Party A, and the animus and disingenuous actions of Party B.

6) Party A will submit their seniority list as of September 27th 2005.

7) Party B will submit their seniority list as of September 27th 2005.

8) The Clerk will kindly go to my chambers and bring my big red stapler.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I know the West wants our Jobs. Thank you USAPA for being there to prevent Westies coming East to fly our planes.

12-13-2006, 11:58 #3 MCDU vbmenu_register("postmenu_1195007", true);
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 496
Civ/Mil: Civilian
A/C Flown: AB320
Ratings: Airbus 320
Total Time: enough
Posts: 496


I do not work for USair. Just wanted to point out that USair was not the only one in distress. I thought they were both toast.

Marty

So which is it?

 

[MCDU]

Next question?


M

 

[Sandhawk]

Good thing I'm not the judge.

My ruling:

1) "Party A's company bought Party B's company. Party B has a long history of failed, bought, sold and merged companies and, in fact, was in bankruptcy at the time of the purchase.

2) Both parties agreed to arbitration which resulted in a fair and equitable means of merging of lists.

3) Party B decided they didn't get a windfall over the pilots of the company that saved their jobs. Then, by majority, they vote in a new union that would be 'more fair and equitable' in their favor.

4) Somehow, the Party A is responsible for all the failings of all the various companies which kluged to form Party B's company. This despite the one commonality to all the failed companies - Party B.

5) After several frivolous lawsuits and much head scratching by judges quietly muttering to themselves and colleagues , 'who the f** are these A$$holes?', I've easily reached a decision which, perhaps unfair, is just considering the expected fate of the pre-merged companies, the demonstrated integrity and good faith of Party A, and the animus and disingenuous actions of Party B.

6) Party A will submit their seniority list as of September 27th 2005.

7) Party B will submit their seniority list as of September 27th 2005.

8) The Clerk will kindly go to my chambers and bring my big red stapler.

Glad to see someone else gets it!!

Just to clarify for the Easties, you are NOT Airline A


imp:

 

[Fast43]

12-13-2006, 11:58 #3 MCDU vbmenu_register("postmenu_1195007", true);
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 496
Civ/Mil: Civilian
A/C Flown: AB320
Ratings: Airbus 320
Total Time: enough
Posts: 496


I do not work for USair. Just wanted to point out that USair was not the only one in distress. I thought they were both toast.

Marty

So which is it?

Never mind

 

[T2Bus]

MCDU....what rock did you crawl out from under. I don't know a single West pilot that wants anything from your "East". I thought you were a pilot or a reject from a different airline, so why don't you take a hike and stop this BS. This is NOT your fight.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Next question?


M

Yeah, which is it? Do you work for United or Us Airways?
Oh forget, I already know the answer.
MCDOOSH is furloughed UAL!
Hey doosh, did you forget your meds again?
AYGSLF with Tourettes!

 

[MCDU]

And tourette boy strikes again.

M