Am I Too Old?

[2yrs2go]

The question asked, in a nutshell, is “Am I too old to become a professional pilot?” Like Bobby has rather thoroughly explained, this is a high risk proposition. What I have taken from the conversation is that before one makes the change, one should know the risks. The risks are enormous and need no further explanation. If you are willing to take the risk, the reward may be enormous as well.

I am quite lucky to have spent a few years (does that make me a member of the club?) in the business. The risks are well known. The point that Bobby makes, is know the risks, you may never get to the dance.

This is a business that gets into your blood, whether you are on the ramp, in scheduling, inflight, flight ops or even, dare I say it, management.

As for plumbing... there are plumbers who never achieved the success promised by their mentors. There are plumbers who hate their jobs. There are lawyers, chefs, executives, laborers, etc, etc, etc that are in the same boat.

Life is a crap shoot. I would rather go to my grave knowing I tried, then wishing I had. For the moment, this is the dream.

 

[pilotyip]

I think "Fly because you like too, if you are in it for the money you may be disappointed" pretty well sums it up.

 

[bobbysamd]

"Club" "membership" defined

I am quite lucky to have spent a few years (does that make me a member of the club?) in the business . . . .

What I mean by "club" "membership" is having experience in something other than boring holes in the sky or flight instructing, e.g., corporate, freight, 135, and amassing some hours, or being military. I believe that age discrimination is less prevalent, if not entirely non-existent, for "club" members.

Perhaps airline workers employed in non-pilot positions might also be club members, because they've built a track record in the business.

Kit Darby made a big deal during the 1987-'91 hiring boom about the airlines hiring over-40 pilots - which made career changing attractive. Kit did not mention that the over-40 pilots in question had already been flying for years, were well-qualified and had good 135, regional, freight and corporate experience, or were ex-military - all members of the "club." These were people who were qualified for the airlines but had not been given their chance.

Outsiders, especially older career-changers with relatively low time and no experience beyond flight instructing, face age discrimination, as opposed to their much-younger colleagues with similar backgrounds.

 

[Vdub Pilot]

I left a cushy senior corporate paralegal position in 97 at age 29 to get all my ratings. I instructed for 3 years and made pretty decent money. I started with a regional 3 years ago making nothing and commuting to work. That all ended last week when I was furloughed. Now at age 36 it's time to reavaluate. Beleive me, the airlines may not be what you think its going to be. Commuting, missing your family, missing holidays, missing your sons first steps, first words... All in all I can honestly say that the most enjoyable flying I have ever done was as a self-employed CFI. I met great people , flew great airplanes, and was my own boss. I realize my CFI situation was unique but it was truly a blast.

My experience at the regional: I worked for a great little regional. Wonderful people and great relationship with management. I never ever had any work issues with management like you hear about at other regionals. However, living life constantly tired and disconnected from my family was more difficult than I imagined. Lack of sleep and poor quality of food on the road is something you need to think about. I knew it was time to pay my dues so I just waited to upgrade. Prior to my class start date we announced the furloughs.

Will I still stay in the business? I have 6 interviews over the next 2 weeks. Motivation is low (for the interviews) but I love flying. I am rethinking my strategy. It is possible I will leave the business. The low salaray just doesn't seem to justify the responsibility and the time away from my wife and baby.

 

[bobbysamd]

Flying v. law or other professions

I left a cushy senior corporate paralegal position in 97 at age 29 to get all my ratings. I instructed for 3 years and made pretty decent money. I started with a regional 3 years ago making nothing and commuting to work. That all ended last week when I was furloughed. Now at age 36 it's time to reavaluate . . . .

Well . . . . there's always law, and working with lawyers and clients.

Of course, the pros of working in lawfirms include somewhat regular schedules, most holidays off and being at home every night. Depending on your practice, cons include struggling to meet deadlines, impossible workloads and dealing with difficult people.

Seriously, as someone with regional experience, you're a member of the club. Unless you really don't want any more flying, go to the interviews and do your best. This, coming from someone on the outside looking in.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[2yrs2go]

The “lifestyle” is probably the most significant hurdle in the process for mid career changers. Even for those who come to the profession as fresh faced 23 year olds, few seem prepared for the life on the road. I have no idea how the pilot parents make it work.

The lifestyle, and this come from four years on experience as a flight attendant for a regional, is not for everyone. I have tried most of the various versions of the life, and have found a number of truths:


For the first few years, maybe more, you will miss every single event of ANY significance in you life: weddings, births, retirement parties, birthday parties, voting, concerts, plays, favorite TV shows, opening day for the Cincinnati Reds (my personal bummer!), bill payment day, garbage day and the list goes on and on. If you want to do it, and do it at a scheduled time, forget about it. Weekends off will become a memory.


Commuting just plain sucks. There is no good way to commute. When I recruited flight attendants for my company I told them straight up, and will tell anyone else the same: DO NOT COMMUTE. I was lucky, I only did the hard core commute (waiting for seats on planes before and after your trip) for six months. After that, I lived within driving distance of my base, and hometown (2 hour drive). If you can live near (driving distance) of your base, your life, especially while on reserve, will improve dramatically.


Healthy Habits: the food you eat on the road is delicious, but not terribly healthy. You have to learn how to make it work. Most of the hotels the company’s put crews up in have gyms or workout rooms. Use it every day. Bring your own food/snacks. I remember in college that all my friends suffered “freshman 10.” Well, in this business, it’s the “reserve 20.” If you smoke, quit or learn to do without. Smoking areas, and the time to grab a smoke, are few and far between.


You will indeed be tired much of the time. This is especially true the first day back from a three to six day trip. If you have kids or other duties at home, they will most likely wait until your second day off. I have found this to be especially true of crewmembers over 35 to 40 years old. Most duty days are nine to twelve hours, but frequently, and without warning, they grow out to FAA limits.


This is my personal experience. This is by no means the definitive description of life on the line. The wonderful things about this business go without saying. And the negative things regarding the financial state of the business are well covered in the media and other threads.


All this said, after a short vacation, and at age 42, I start flight training full time in two weeks. I cannot wait to get back to the line, only this time up front, doing the most amazing thing I have ever done, flying an airplane. For those of you doing the career change, feel free to PM me (I’ll have to figure out how that works!) if you would like to discuss life on the road.

 

[bobbysamd]

Club membership

All this said, after a short vacation, and at age 42, I start flight training full time in two weeks. I cannot wait to get back to the line, only this time up front [after being a flight attendant], doing the most amazing thing I have ever done, flying an airplane. For those of you doing the career change, feel free to PM me (I’ll have to figure out how that works!) if you would like to discuss life on the road.

Ah, hah, a "club" member! As I wrote earlier, "club" members are virtually immune from age discrimination.

Flight attendants most certainly are "club" members. Further, as someone who recruited flight attendants, you would be well known in your company, have a track record, and undoubtedly will have some pull with the pilot recruiter by way of LORs and personal acquaintance. Given these factors, despite your age, you most definitely have a chance at being hired.

Yes, it is the "not what you know but who you know" factor, and, for you, that's fine. There are many stories about flight attendants who train as pilots and are hired as pilots by their companies.

Good luck with your training.

I stand by my position that regionals practice age discrimination against late-life career changers who offer nothing but instructing experience - as compared to their younger non-"club" members who offer the same experience and who do not experience discrimination.

 

[Vdub Pilot]

Well . . . . there's always law, and working with lawyers and clients.

Of course, the pros of working in lawfirms include somewhat regular schedules, most holidays off and being at home every night. Depending on your practice, cons include struggling to meet deadlines, impossible workloads and dealing with difficult people.

Seriously, as someone with regional experience, you're a member of the club. Unless you really don't want any more flying, go to the interviews and do your best. This, coming from someone on the outside looking in.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

I can honestly say that we had/have many older FOs at my regional. Some started in their 50s and upgraded to captain already. It depends on where you go. Some of the smaller commuters probably are your best bet.

ShuttleAmerica
Commutair
Chicago Express (if they continue operating)
Colgan
Great Lakes

Just a thought.

 

[bobbysamd]

I can honestly say that we had/have many older FOs at my regional. Some started in their 50s and upgraded to captain already . . . .

Is that started at your regional in their fifties after flying for a while or started flying in their fifties and being hired?

I have a friend my age (54) who had been flying for years and who had interviewed with Trans States six years ago, during the height of that boom. He had high total time and fair-to-middlin' multi time - not enough in proportion to his total but enough to get him through the door. Trans States rejected him. He found out that he was rejected flat-out because of his age. During the same time period, circa 1998, he had a similar experence at Aloha Island Air.

 

[pilotyip]

I was 34 when I left the Navy and had 2500 hours most of it multi engine turbine PIC in a 100,000 pound + P-3, an ATP with an L-188 type. Therefore, after being in the Navy 11 years, I averaged under 250 hr per year, typical military flt time. The majors told me my age and hours were out of ratio, back then being over 30 and getting a major interview was difficult. So even back in the 70's being older was a factor also.