am I a pilot whore?

[Earl Williams]

I'm beginning to question my sanity on a new role that has been offered to me, and was curious what everyone's thoughts were on the subject.

After deciding to abandon my corporate job of nine years in hopes of making a career-change into aviation, I decided to work the line at a charter company in order to help finance my ratings. After recently earning my Commercial certificate, this company has allowed for me to help out on flights, such as deliveries, customer relocations, etc. There's only one caveat...I'm not getting paid. Basically, the company feels it's doing a low-timer such as myself a favor by allowing me to build time in their nice H/P Mooney's, as well as getting established in their flight department (feeling it could eventually develop into "bigger, better things"). In short, it's a barter deal...I don't pay for the time, but I'm not getting paid either.

Coming from a previous career in which I would charge my client a reasonable, yet hefty, rate for consulting, I guess I'm just used to being compensated for services rendered. As I've gotten deeper into aviation, I've found that some of these "normal" rules of business conduct may not apply. We all know that most CFI's aren't compensated even CLOSE to adequately, or what one would expect for their levels of expertise and training. Yet I also hear of pilots willing to ride along for free, or work for minimal scraps, in order to gain valuable time. I'm almost coming to the conclusion that it's not uncommon to "barter" one's time for flight hours (at least for low-timer's such as myself).

I'm willing to pay my dues to the fullest extent in order to make my dream of flying for a living a reality. Yet I don't want to do so in a way that not only sacrifices my principles, but the principles of this industry. In other words, I don't want to set any more of a precedence for dragging down the payscale for pilots. In leiu of the way the industry is right now, I realize the financial sacrifices that will need to be made in order to build quality time. However, I want to do so only if it's ethical, or at least a "traditional" route (whatever that means!).

So, my question is: as a newly-minted commercial pilot, should I expect to get paid (even a nominal amount) for services such as what I'm performing for my company? I've been told that the valuable complex/HP time that I'm receiving is, to an extent, "pay" due to the fact that I'M not having to pay for this time myself. However, this concept makes little sense when I compare it to, for example, flight instructing. I would assume that a CFI wouldn't be willing to work for free simply becuase they're not having to pay for their flight time. I consider my case to be similiar...at least in theory. I seriously doubt that my landlord would allow me to use this complex/HP time in my logbook as barter for my monthly rent!

My apologies for all the rambling...I'm just having trouble understanding whether this is "right". My gut tells me it's not, but I also don't want to walk away from what could (at least develop) into valuble experience.

...any thoughts????

-Earl

 

[Otto_Pilot]

Go with your gut.

Your training and experience have value. Its up to you to attach a dollar to that value.

 

[enigma]

Earl, you said, "this company has allowed for me to help out on flights, such as deliveries, customer relocations" From that I conclude that you are performing duties as a delivery pilot. If you are the PIC, then I would suggest that you charge some nominal fee for your services. If you are just being allowed to ride along and "help out" then you are not getting anything worth having.

While I would like to see you get paid something for your time, I will conceed that it is possible to consider it a trade out. I imagine that high performance time is worth more per hour than is charter pilot services.

In my opinion, as long as you are not taking a job away from a working pilot, then go for it. If your actions are depriving another more qualified pilot of a job, then you must consider refusing to fly for free.

regards,
8N

 

[sauce]

Probably, welcome to the group

You will find a lot of pilots that wants "everyone else" to hold a standard, but if you look into their background, you will find that MOST(not all) pilots have bummed rides and worked for almost nothing.

Cover your own butt and don't worry about the winners on the message boards. Most pilots are pretty cool and fair, but a lot are back stabbing little bit!hes, who will do anything to advance up.

My advice (free) is to evaluate each opportunity and if it is safe and worth it to you, go for it. You are not going to hurt this industry, there has been, and always will be, someone waiting to do it for free! This will not change!

 

[Timebuilder]

Cover your own butt and don't worry about the winners on the message boards. Most pilots are pretty cool and fair, but a lot are back stabbing little bit!hes, who will do anything to advance up.

Was that "winners" or "whiners"? I'm not sure what you meant.

At any rate, Earl, this is a tough call.

Once, I was asked by the secretary at my flight school to go and pick up a student after his airplane crapped out at another airport while he was on a cross country. Later, my boss told me that I was expected to do this for free, since no one was paying for the aircraft time. I complained, and I was not abused again in that way. Later, we had another heated discussion about being paid as a professional when asked to do the work of a professional. Remember, these guys are used to taking advantage of far younger and less experienced people, not folks like you and I who have a clue. This has built up a comfort zone of expectations for them.

There are a great many slimeballs in aviation, and it's up to you whether or not you are going to further their interests while you further your own. Are you fully insured and protected from any unreasonable liability if you have an accident, or will the company's insurance pay the claim and then come after YOU?

One outlook is the concept that logging time in a new Mooney would cost a bunch, far different from my being asked to fly for an hour and a half in a 172RG for free. You could call this compensation, for sure. Just make sure you are protected financially if you are not "on the clock", and this duty is spelled out and clear as a part of your job, paid or not.

If this is only on occaision, it probably isn't a big deal, particularly if it leads to a better position. Just make sure you are PROTECTED.

 

[wil]

Earl- you must be compensated for your services. Plain and simple! I hope you can get a fair wage for your services!

 

[Timebuilder]

The unfortunate fact is this: either Earl agrees to do this, or another eager person will be willing to do it instead.

 

[TXCAP4228]

Free Market

The unfortunate fact is this: either Earl agrees to do this, or another eager person will be willing to do it instead.

My post is not intended as flamebait, only food for thought.

It is a fundamental principal of a free market that a wage should be based on what value a particular skill or capability has in the the marketplace. Pilots don't like to hear this much, but there are a THOUSANDS of qualified pilots out there willing to work for little or nothing in order to build the time they need to advance their careers.

This is the free market at work.

If there are pilots willing to work for minimum wage to fly a Mooney then that's what the market will bear. If there are pilots willing to work for less or for no monetary wage, then this is also the free market at work.

No transaction ever occurs in a free market without the consent of both parties. Also, compensation does not have to come in the form of a monetary wage or salary. In your case, you can think of the opportunity to log flight time as a form of compensation so you would still not be working for free.

If there are folks on this board that think that because they operate a complicated machine they're entitled to be exempt from the free market I would have to ask why. I have asked this question many times and can never get a good answer.


The only advice I can give you is to reiterate that no transaction (or employment) evers occurs without mutual consent. If you don't think you're being paid at an appropriate level then you always have the option to walk away. Don't cheat yourself and don't get cheated, but don't buy into the dogma that somehow pilots are special from every other job in the known universe and are somehow entitled to some minimum arbitrary level of payment.

But you definitely don't owe it to your "pilot brothers" to insist on some kind of payment just to satisfy everybody else out there who doesn't have the same chance to build time that you have.

Flame away.

 

[Timebuilder]

You're right.

In a purely free market, there would be no collective bargaining, sexual harassment suits, or alphabet government agencies. We never really have a truly free market, due to the activities of Man and his government.

In the case of pilots, if enough pilots agree to refuse to work for no wages or low wages, then wages and conditions would rise. This is very unlikely to happen, since people, particularly younger people with precious little life experience, are very unlikely to act on anyone's behalf except their own. PFT is a good example of this, as is the incredibly low pay that we accept for flight instruction.

This leaves the only marginally effective course, that of collective bargaining. It is efficient to a point, as long as the market allows for the conditions of the contract. We are now seeing what happens when the market can no longer support the costs associated with the contract.

The market is, however, self-correcting. As the business, any business, becomes unattractive to enough people, wages will be forced to rise to the point of equilibrium. Aviation is no different. As word spreads of the furloughs, the poor working conditions, the loss of the pot of gold at the end of the major airline rainbow, only the most stalwart will be left to compete for the remaining jobs.

And the market will begin to attract workers, slowly depressing wages and begining the cycle yet again .

 

[TurboS7]

A workmen is worthy of his hire. If the charter company doesn't want to pay you they are cheap, cheap, cheap. More than likely they are also being cheap on maint. and everything else. They are using and abusing you. I had guys work for me when I had a Part 135, they drove vans, cleaned the hangar, and they were free to ride on the flights -on their own time. I paid them for all the other duties and as a company employee they had the seat open to them if they wanted it. As for time in a complex airplane that doesn't hold water. If you rented the airplane you could go with it where you wished and get up when you wanted to. I sounds like to me if you are flying for any compensation for the company or if the company is recieving any compensation(not on a Part 135) you are totally illegal. People may not like PFT but running an illegal charter operation is 10 times worse.