ALPA National changes policy, now supports Age 65 retirement

[Freight Dog]

Hey Rez, how do you multi-quote like that?

Take the part you want to quote and before that type [qoute] put your quoted test here, then close out the quotes like this [/qoute], then type your answer. When you want to quote again, use the same format.

(misspelled on purpose to show you the example)

As for the other issues... we agree to disagree.

You really did make me chuckle with the notion that management thanks me for wearing my pin upside down. Thank you for that. How little do you know...

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Deleted......... Not worth the trouble

 

[Dumb Pilot]

One that stands up when bullied instead of rolling over. How many times did pilot groups cave when threatened with bankruptcy over the last 5 years or regionals accepted substandard agreements to get bigger or more airplanes?

One that protects all of its memebers interests (J4J program at US Air WOs)

ALPA is at a crossroads and major changes need to take place. A good place to start would be fragmenting the regionals off to get rid of the conflict of interest. You could still share resources in medical, certificate action, safety, etc.. but barganing should be separate. Either that or come up with a way to resolve disputes internally effectively.

Do you have any other questions ualdriver?

Because most pilots think Unionism is a spectator sport.

Members don't participate because we DON'T believe. It is lack of leadership and results that have driven folks away but like a typical ALPA jarhead you are diconnected from that fact and turn around and blame the membership.

 

[d328pilot]

Why don't members come to LEC meetings to work with the officers they elected.

What other union's members are away for 4 day trips? If I have a meeting on a day off (1 of 2), and you expect me to drive or commute in for an LEC meeting (and be away from family), you better damn well make sure my time is spent well and make sure I feel that my presence there means something. Right now, the perception is that ALPA doesnt care what its members think, therefore, why waste a day off to show up?

Again, a failure of the LEADERSHIP.

 

[d328pilot]

Glad to. But we need to work together. Will you help?

Rez, I believe your intentions are good, but you are preaching to the wrong group. The leaders and leadership method have to change first before the members will come around.

 

[ualdriver]

Do you have any other questions ualdriver?

Nope. It's all ALPA's fault. Got it.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Members don't participate because we DON'T believe. It is lack of leadership and results that have driven folks away but like a typical ALPA jarhead you are diconnected from that fact and turn around and blame the membership.

So what then, sir, do you suggest?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What other union's members are away for 4 day trips?

Who cares. No one else does. However, your ALPA volunteers are flying four day trips and volunteering thier time. Why can't you?

If I have a meeting on a day off (1 of 2), and you expect me to drive or commute in for an LEC meeting (and be away from family), you better damn well make sure my time is spent well and make sure I feel that my presence there means something. Right now, the perception is that ALPA doesnt care what its members think, therefore, why waste a day off to show up?

Again, a failure of the LEADERSHIP.

And if the leadership is unsat..then what.

Your entitlement attitude is really offensive. LEC guys trying to make the place better and all you got is disdain and ungratefulness. My children have more respect and grattitude than you...

When are you going to take responsbility for YOUR CAREER?

What responsibilities do you have as a member? None? Some?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, I believe your intentions are good, but you are preaching to the wrong group. The leaders and leadership method have to change first before the members will come around.

A mexican stand off.....

And as YOUR CAREER...our career continues to race to the bottom... what are you going to do? when are you going to do something? Will you just quit and find another career? How passive are you willing to be?

With LEC elections happening regularly... when is the membership going to vote in the right leadership...

It is a two way street this membership leadership thing... but it is YOUR CAREER....

 

[d328pilot]

Who cares. No one else does. However, your ALPA volunteers are flying four day trips and volunteering thier time. Why can't you?

I did.... for 4 years.

And if the leadership is unsat..then what.

Voted agains DW at BOD. I was expecting change but as of yet, disappointed.

Your entitlement attitude is really offensive. LEC guys trying to make the place better and all you got is disdain and ungratefulness. My children have more respect and grattitude than you...

Could really care less what you think about my attitude. When I was an involved, active, dues paying member I had the right to feel entitled to fair equal representation. Neither I, nor my pilot group got it. I never had disdain for the rest of the MEC members, I respected them very much. (even when they were wrong )

When are you going to take responsbility for YOUR CAREER?

Actively doing that. Part of that was getting as far from ALPA as possible.

When is the last time ALPA put out a poll to see how satisfied the membership was with the services being provided?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I did.... for 4 years.

Good for you....the more volunteers the better... what happened? You seem to have be let down.

Voted agains DW at BOD. I was expecting change but as of yet, disappointed.

So now what? You voted for change. And now you don't like it. What next... What are the solutions?

Could really care less what you think about my attitude. When I was an involved, active, dues paying member I had the right to feel entitled to fair equal representation. Neither I, nor my pilot group got it. I never had disdain for the rest of the MEC members, I respected them very much. (even when they were wrong )

I care about your attitude because the more guys that are bitter are ineffective..

Actively doing that. Part of that was getting as far from ALPA as possible.

Then what? What about the profession?

When is the last time ALPA put out a poll to see how satisfied the membership was with the services being provided?

There is a poll. Every LEC election. But it seems only 30% care to even vote. So I guess the status quo is fine.

Oh... you mean a Wilson poll... I don't think you'd like the answers and/or the membership would claim the question are loaded.

An internet poll... I am guessing only 15-20% of the membership would bother....

 

[Clark W.]

Hey, then way don't the ALPA memebers that agree, that ALPA contricts itself within the Regionals and the Majors. Why don't they pony up and vote ALPA off the property and bring an in house union in?
Ya'll bitch about living horible QOL's, then way not start at the begining. Ditch ALPA, vote in house union and start from scratch.

I did my time with the Union as a volunteer. I suggested this and heard "It was too much work".....No, just as easy to vote them off, than to vote them on.
VOTE ALPA off the FIELD!

 

[Clark W.]

Same question to you UALDriver... ever stopped and question why people don't show up to union meetings?

Pilts can't even stand to listen to the cocky SOB they're flying with that week. Why would one want to go to a meeting on thier time off with a room full of guys, talking about how great and wonderful they are?

Been there, seen it. It sucks. just sit infront of your mirror and be Stuart Smiley.

 

[d328pilot]

Good for you....the more volunteers the better... what happened? You seem to have be let down.

1. Pilots voted down a TA, then the MEC approves it over the outcry of the pilot group.

2. The J4J program has been changed by the us air alpa unit about 4 times now without any input from the WOs. ALPA doesnt seem to have any problem with this.

3. During negotiations for 70 seat RJs. We are told by an ALPA national officer that if we dont accept the current proposal, that someone else will get it. Really, how is that going to help our position?

4. We have objected to many of the changes to the J4J program, however there is no internal dispute resolution procedure for disputes between 2 ALPA units. So we get walked on time after time.

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head....Im late for the sim.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I have never heard anyone EVEN ONCE say anything about needing to do X,Y, or Z because it brings in more dues.

Talk to Jalmer. He'll tell you that to your face.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I've heard through the grapevine that Us Airways pilots are preparing to decertify ALPA and are courting the Teamsters. Maybe we can look into that at ASA too, since we're in the same group as AAA.

Maybe if some large groups left ALPA they would get the message that one size DOESN'T fit all.

 

[WildBlue]

deleted

 

[JoeMerchant]

Rez O Lewshun,

Your answer to everything seems to be that we need more participation. While I agree with you that participation is pathetic, I don't agree that more participation will help heal the divide.

The 3 big issues that are tearing ALPA apart are

1. Scope
2. Age 60
3. Merger policy

If the pilot group is close to equally divided, and if we remain divided by company lines, what does more participation do for us. The percentage of divided pilots will be the same, there will just be more of them.

What needs to be addressed is the actual issues that are dividing us. Then maybe more people will get involved.

Your message is doing ALPA more harm than good. You are blaiming these problems on the membership....while giving the highly paid national officers a free pass...Keep it up Rez.... the push for decertification is picking up steam at several properties.....

 

[Brazilgun]

.....

......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez O Lewshun,

Your answer to everything seems to be that we need more participation. While I agree with you that participation is pathetic, I don't agree that more participation will help heal the divide.

Wow Joe.. you may have your three items below but none of it is going to be addressed until the membership gets involved. Membership particpation is a piece to the puzzle...but it is also the foundation on which to build effectiveness.

What Prater has yet to do in my opinion is build the team and relationships before addressing Age 60, or the AAA/AWA merger or whatever it is..

The 3 big issues that are tearing ALPA apart are

1. Scope
2. Age 60
3. Merger policy

If the pilot group is close to equally divided, and if we remain divided by company lines, what does more participation do for us. The percentage of divided pilots will be the same, there will just be more of them.

Joe.... if the membership doesn't know what the problems are how can they be fixed?

What needs to be addressed is the actual issues that are dividing us. Then maybe more people will get involved.

No...what needs to be addressed is the divided house. The divisions and how to fix them. Only then can we go to work....

Your message is doing ALPA more harm than good. You are blaiming these problems on the membership....

No Joe your silly lawsuit that is sucking dues right out from the avg member. It is good they are apathetic so they don't know what kind of bull in a China shop you are..

while giving the highly paid national officers a free pass..

I can influence the Nat'l officers.. I can control my particaption. Get it?


.

Keep it up Rez.... the push for decertification is picking up steam at several properties.....

That is trash talking.... The apathetic membership doesn't know how to decertify.. maybe in their anger they will figure it out.... but consider that in thier anger to get rid of ALPA they could have focused on positve change...

In addition getting rid of ALPA is like getting rid of the police. Sure your taxes will go down but when crime goes up and your doughter is raped you are going to wish for law and order....

Not that ALPA is the police, but that so much of what ALPA does is taken for granted...

Care to put a price on June 6 congressional testimony?


ALPA will only get better when pilots become activist for the Air Line Pilot Profession and not independent contractors for Me Corp.

You can try and spin my words as destructive Joe all while you keep hammering your cancerous lawsuit against the membership....